Is Genepax for real? A car that runs on water? Highly unlikely!
It never fails, whenever fuel prices go up someone comes up with some new miracle that will reduce or eliminate your gas consumption. Back in the 1970s, it was 200mpg carburetors, magnets you put on the fuel lines and all manner of other things that never worked. One staple of these schemes has always been the car that runs on water. The latest example comes from Japan created by a company called Genepax. They have devised a system that consists of a fuel cell and a so called energy generator. The energy generator is claimed to consume water and breaks it down to hydrogen and oxygen which is fed to the fuel cell. While fuel cells are well understood and are known to work, the hydrogen generator is the issue.
Hydrogen can actually be separated from water quite easily with no energy input. Just put a piece of aluminum in into some water and hydrogen will be release as the surface of the aluminum oxidizes. The problem is that such processes are not sustainable. Once the surface of the aluminum is fully oxidized, the reaction stops. After this, the material needs to be reprocessed so it can be used again. This part requires significant energy input. Genepax has not revealed details of their process, however it is believed to be something along these lines. While the converted Reva electric car may indeed be able to run on water for a short time with no external inputs other than water, it's not clear how long that can actually happen. It may turn out that Genepax has come out with something revolutionary. More likely they are only showing part of the big picture right now and we aren't seeing the other part of the process that regenerates the energy generator.
[Source: Reuters, thanks to David for the tip]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
ron 9:47PM (6/15/2008)
let me guess, they are looking for investors?
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Luke 10:26PM (6/15/2008)
What's the "energy generator" powered by? The fuel cell it's powering? If so, that's just another fake perpetual motion machine. If, on the other hand, it is powered by batteries or fossil fuels, who needs the contraption?
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Truman 12:53AM (7/25/2008)
It can't be a hoax. Look how ugly that car is, no one would design a car like that on purpose unless they had to. :)
The energy probably comes from a chemical reaction of water and a proprietary metal alloy which depletes over time, which would mean you'd need to replenish the alloy. Or perhaps the alloy serves as a catalyst that would make the electrolysis of water require less energy.
But I certainly wouldn't call it a 'hoax'. People are way too trigger-happy with that term these days.
ltclloyd 7:08AM (6/16/2008)
I might be seeing things but it looks like the guy behind the wheel is Jason from the Friday the 13th series. I'm thinking this is someones hoax.
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Doug 10:36PM (6/15/2008)
What's with the dude in the driver's seat wearing a hockey mask?!
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mike baz 11:39PM (6/15/2008)
Look up the Stanley Meyers over unity hydrolysis patent. The patent describes a high voltage high frequency low ampere current producing more energy than is input. Scientific heresy. But most monumental changes in science start as heresy.
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fnc 2:02AM (6/16/2008)
Nicked the picture from Engadget did ya? (They posted this last Friday, the 13th).
Agree that the process described to power the car sounds like some smoke and mirrors. I know they have chemical concoctions that can break down water molecules quite fast, but from what I understand you will consume a great deal of it very quickly, too quickly to get a car very far.
One thing I've always wondered about, however. If we're carrying around water as a way of storing hydrogen, since oxygen weighs eight times what hydrogen does doesn't that mean we're carrying three times as much 'dead weight' in oxygen as we are in hydrogen?
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Luke 2:22AM (6/16/2008)
" But most monumental changes in science start as heresy."
And most heresy remains heresy. Especially the heresy that can't be repeated by anyone else.
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Tim 8:54AM (6/16/2008)
Only a complete fool would state that there is nothing new to be learned about a subject.
There are still LOTS of holes in "physical theory" and there is much that is yet to be fully understood. I say let's listen with a skeptical but open mind so that IF they can prove what they are saying is true, we will not be too blinded by current dogma see it.
History has proven time and time again that known fact if often fiction. Each event made fools of the detractors. Will the next fool please stand up and hurl their stone…
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Monkey 9:44AM (6/16/2008)
"I might be seeing things but it looks like the guy behind the wheel is Jason from the Friday the 13th series. I'm thinking this is someones hoax."
The picture, and story, were originally posted on Friday 13th at Engadget. Jason popped up in a lot of images that day. It doesn't make the story a hoax.
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daviz2007-ibmdw 12:03PM (6/16/2008)
Here you have more information along with the original photo (without the jason mask):
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/
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Throwback 12:13PM (6/16/2008)
Depending on where you live, water maybe more valuable than oil! Ask the folks in Georgia for example.
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Wave54 12:33PM (6/16/2008)
I agree with keeping an open mind to this concept, even though it defies current logic. Japanese companies aren't known for pie-in-the-sky schemes to bilk investors.
What do they know that the rest of us are missing?
As far as water being scarce, that's ludicrous. It doesn't have to be clean, drinking water and even if it had to be imported from other areas, could it possibly be more costly than the entire system for producing gasoline?
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GoodCheer 1:16PM (6/16/2008)
As far as the scarcity of water:
The exhaust of a fuel cell is water vapor. All you would need is a condenser to cool it back into liquid form, drain it back into the tank and it would be a closed system. So there you go, you don't even have to consume water, you simply build the system and it will provide power for ever and ever for free with no inputs.
Why would anyone be skeptical?
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Paul Govan 4:56PM (6/16/2008)
Exactly - condense vapour & feed back to system.
But wait - why stop at cars??
Why not build a 10 mile wide 200 foot high Genepax power station and power an entire nation - or the whole planet.
And you could even condense the vapour(spelling - I´m a Brit) into water tanks on the 200 foot high power-plant roof then run it down rapidly through pipes passing thru hydropower turbines(thankyou gravity !) back to the start-point water input tanks at ground level. Filter it - feed it back in.
Perpetual energy. Incredible.
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Torrent 5:06PM (6/16/2008)
OK I want a tango.
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Chris M 5:54PM (6/16/2008)
While watching the video, I was struck by the fact they didn't mention "fuel cells" at all. That leads me to think that the "energy generator" is really just a simple battery that uses water as an electrolyte, much like the "potato powered clock" sold as a toy. Cutting out the fuel cell certainly cuts the initial cost, but that type of battery is a primary cell and would have to be replaced after driving a short distance due to electrode oxidation and corrosion. Hey, there's more than one way to run a scam!
As for that perennial scam, the Meyer Cell, it can't work as claimed. Using a pulsed power source for electrolysis doesn't improve efficiency, but it does make it extremely difficult to accurately measure power and energy consumption, so it is easy for the scammer to make it look more efficient than it really is. The huge volume of low density gas produced looks really impressive, but carries very little energy - 1 gallon of uncompressed "Browns gas" is the energy equivalent of a droplet of gasoline.
As for all those hypergullible folks who think that the basic laws of the universe are mere suggestions to be overturned whenever they become inconvenient, well, you really make a scam artists day. Scammers are found in every nation and every ethnic group and every religion, there certainly are scammers in Japan. Anyone who thinks "It can't happen here" or "My people are all good honest churchgoing folks" is just ripe for being plucked clean.
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Luke 6:44PM (6/16/2008)
"Only a complete fool would state that there is nothing new to be learned about a subject.
...IF they can prove what they are saying is true, we will not be too blinded by current dogma see it."
First of all, no one said there is nothing to learn. Secondly, if someone can make something that breaks all laws of thermodynamics, then let them come forth and prove it. Otherwise it's just a scam. Sure, we'll see all sorts of pictures of mysterious boxes and hoses, but no one will ever be able to replicate their results, even with perfect instructions. And the person who makes the claims never is able to demonstrate their findings is public in front of informed people. Why? Because it's a hoax.
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stevefazek 7:50PM (6/16/2008)
Stan Meyer died of an embolism. He was convicted of fraud and had a chance to let independent investors look at his car yet he refused.
If the car ran on the concept of injecting water straight into the cylinder in the port were the spark plugs where. Yet it still clearly showed the spark plugs.
If it was a Direct injection how come his car had a carborator on it still. He was a snake oil sales man. The video of his device was simply a electrolysis machine and when demonstrating it it produced no more hydrogen than anythign else i have seen
I want to kill people like Jim, they push frauds and lies like 911 was a inside job. This kind of crap takes away from anyone wanting to learn more about alterntive technology.
I hope to get in a green business soon but i wont make outragious claim.
When Explaining EV Vs ICE.
Its this ismple.
With a ICE the engine is complicated and expensive, the Fuel tank is Dirt cheap but the fuel costs alot of money.
With a EV
The motor is cheap and simple, the Fuel is cheap the Tank is expensive
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Chris M 9:52PM (6/16/2008)
Yes, jim, there is all sorts of info out there on the "Meyer Cell" and "Joe Cell" and "Browns gas" and "HHO", etc. Nothing is being hidden or supressed - except by the scammers themselves. If you want to waste your time and money trying to do the impossible, go right ahead, nobody will stop you or even try to slow you down. But years from now when you realized that we were right, and you've wasted so much time and effort, please try not to be bitter. On the other hand, I suspect you're the type that will never figure it out, you'll waste your whole life chasing this delightful delusion.
BTW, a "fuel cell" combines a fuel (usually hydrogen) and oxidizer (usually oxygen) to produce electricity. The device you are trying to build is an electrolysis cell, which is the exact opposite of a fuel cell. Please use the correct terminology, it makes things a lot less confusing.
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