These diesels are cleaner than 90% of gas cars sold today. 0 particulate matter (can't say that about any gassers), hundreds of times less evap emissions than even the Prius if you count evap emissions from gasoline distribution. NOx is higher than the PZEV rating, but other than that these are as clean or cleaner than any PZEV. Plus using 30% less fuel takes 30% less tankers crossing the ocean, 30% less refinerys dumping chemicals into the air, and 30% less wells getting drilled in national parks even if diesel costs a little more. You people that have bought into CARBs mantra that diesels are dirty and should be banned are the reason we can't have all the fuel efficient choices available in the rest of the world. It is such garbage that I can go out and buy a gas hogging Hummer H2 or Chrysler 300C, but a 70mpg Ford Fiesta is banned in the US because it is too dirty!? Even the "dirty" Tier 2 bin 9 diesels like the 2006 Jetta and Toureg put out 90% less pollution than any car built in the 90's. And when manufacturers finally work out the technology to pass the rediculus emissions standards that were designed to ban diesels and keep gas hog SUVs around, you so called "greenies" are still calling them dirty. It makes me sick.

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Allow me to respectfully call BS on the 70% figure.

Making some assumptions, I presume the diesel prices you saw were close to $4/gal. correct?

Looking at the current national avg for fuel prices, Regular unleaded gasoline(RUG) is at $2.22/gal. So, 70% higher than that would be about $3.77/gal.

Referring back to national averages, diesel is currently listed at $2.96/gal. Comparing that price to the avg. for RUG, I calculated that diesel is currently 33% higher than RUG, in other words, less than half what you stated that you saw(or exagerrated for effect).

Now, I won't disagree that a 33% difference is still fairly large, but it's also not at all typical of what we've seen over the past few years. More recently and even during the fuel price run-ups, the price of diesel was generally about 15% higher than RUG. For instance, even 1 month ago RUG was at $3.15/gal. while diesel was at $3.67/gal. That's a difference of 16.5% for diesel over RUG.

Price figures fromt eh Dept of Energy at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm

So, I blame two reasons for the large difference. The dramatic decrease in the cost of gasoline(due to decreased demand, the end of the summer driving season, low crude prices etc.) combined with the seasonal increase in demand for home heating oil(which drives up the cost of diesel) have made the price differential larger than normal(and still far, far below the 70% you claim).

I suspect that during this winter or shortly after, the prices will stabilize and diesel will drop back down to the levels we've seen over the past few years if not closer to the price of Premium.

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I don't care where pulled your numbers out of, but as I stated my numbers came from the sign at the station, which were (rounding to the nearest penny) gas $1.80, diesel $3.10. So get you little calculator out and try the math on that. (Hint 72.2% more for diesel)

Today things changed, it was $1.76 for gas and $2.99 for diesel. So that would be approximately 69.88636% more for diesel.

I am amazed you would have the arrogance to call someones numbers BS when you couldn't possible prove them wrong.

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So, at one station out of thousands across the country, your facts are correct.

I on the other hand, utilized data direct from the Dept. of Energy and yet I'm the one whose facts are called into question??

My solution, don't buy gas at that station. Furthermore, if you live near there maybe you shouldn't buy a diesel vehicle because obviously it might not be the best choice for that one small section of the country. Doesn't mean it's not a good choice in many, many other places. To each their own.

However, don't presume to claim that the price you saw is in any way predictive of the prices seen elsewhere across the country. That was my main point. Fact is, 70% is still more than double the expected price difference in 99.9% of the country and I have the data to back that up, you have one station to disprove it.

Way to get defensive though about anecdotal evidence, I applaude your entusiasm.

By chance, where is this station located out of curiosity?

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My facts where 100% correct. If you would have paid attention, you would have notices I quoted the price at one station. But not liking the the number you went on the offense and called it BS then accused me of EXAGGERATING or lying.

Now, trying to cover your butt, you claim that only one station in the entire country has prices like this, another assertion that you can't possibly support.

Given the DOE's number are rather high, they could be old, hence wrong. As prices drop, fixed differences cause larger percentage differences. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is possible.

But even with your numbers, I still find it had to believe large numbers of people we go for diesels. There just isn't enough advantage to justify the switch. I've owned two diesels, and still own one, but I find them difficult to defend strictly from a value perspective.

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I'd suspect that would be the case since the power peak is at 4220RPM and the redline is 5000RPM.

Diesels aren't really meant to be engines that offer high RPM power, nor do they need it.

Take this excerpt from the recent test by Motor Trend for example,

- "The trick is to remember to shift early -- although the tach is redlined at 5000, the party's pretty much over the moment engine reaches its 4220-rpm power peak. We barely used more than 3500 rpm, luxuriating in the sort of grunt out of corners only 425 lb-ft -- more torque than a Dodge Challenger SRT8's 6.1L Hemi pumps out -- can provide." -

The rest of the story is here, http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_bmw_3_series_diesel_first_drive/index.html

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I have a 2001 tdi beetle and I know what you mean. It is so much cheaper to run than my other car or any other car its size. Mine has 245,000 miles on it and still runs great. I am most likely going to get the volt in a couple of years but the 335d is amazing! Being able to go 0-60 in 6 seconds and have that kind of fuel economy when you want to relax is the best of both worlds.

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Supposed to be a reply, disregard.

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