What's this BYD co. thinking? Gs prices are really low now. There's no need for EVs anymore.

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Yes there is. My company works with Chinese manufacturers. We know they are cheating, and expect they are cheating.

For example, our company has to pay for the test equipment used at the end of the line to test the electronic devices before they are shipped. Every unit must be tested before it is shipped. By the calculated cycle time, the most units that could be tested in an hour is 1,000 (for example). But our manufacturer has managed to build over 9,000 units (for example) in an 8 hour period and claim them as tested and thus ship them.

You do the math.

They're cheating. And as Mike says, it leads to quality problems.

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LOL
"there is no "Endemic cheating" in China now or in Chinese culture in general."

Tell that to Microsoft. When the sent out an "update" that blackened screens for a few minutes on stolen software the whole country almost blacked out including Govt. offices! The Government raised such an uproar and threats Microsoft backed down!
We will never be able to compete as long as the field is grossly tilted in their favor.
Everyone SAW what China's environmental rules look like in Bejing.
Everyone KNOWS what happens to people who try to improve working conditions.

Free trade with lowest price as the only consideration is a race to the bottom.
STEALING is not INNOVATION
SLAVE LABOR is not efficiency.
RAMPANT ENVIRONMENTAL corruption affects the whole world.

As long as our corporate chiefs are willing to give away trade secrets and offshore manufacturing to save their jobs and get short term bonuses we are doomed.

Our only hope is to start imposing the cost of regulation and inspection on imported goods that are using those costs on domestic manufacturers to dominate.
A country without manufacturing will never be a power.

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tark,

there is wide spread software piracy in China. partly because Chinese consumer are much poor and partly because Chinese culture.

Chinese culture regard IP by fame, great works widely copies for free, as long as the author is properly acknowledged, a bit like GPL license agreement for Linux. western culture reward IP by money.

i don't want to argue which one is morally superior, you be the judge. but China is in the transition into current western system and it takes time.

don't use sensational words "stealing, slave labor", the wall street lost trillions of dollar for investors here and all over the world, is this not "stealing"?

software piracy is wrong and should be corrected, i do not disagree with you. that dose not defeat my argument that Chinese culture is a hight trust culture. people value trust b/w each other highly.

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20k-30k battery is the current price if you have to buy it from a third party supplier. it is not set in stone, certainly not for a battery maker himself.

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No, the price I gave was if you bought directly from the supplier, with decently negotiated prices (but not the best possible). If bought small volume or through a middleman you'd pay 2X or more, depending.

You can say the price isn't set it stone, but companies don't stay in business and make money by giving away things for less than it costs them to make them. So like I said, they can make some by setting an unrealistic internal chargeback price if they want. But no matter what they set it at, if they make a bunch of these cars and sell them at $30K with $45K worth of materials in them, they'll lose their shirts at a rapid pace.

So they just won't make any. And the ones sold will probably never be tested by independent sources and thus if they want, they can make them have reduced range and save money on them.

It's still just a big lie. You might as well place your faith in the Mini-E, which is also BS, they would cost a fortune if they sold them even at break even, so they simply don't sell them.

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Well, retard, they went up for sale THIS MONTH in China so there goes your ignorant claim.

And guess why they are able to provide batteries so cheaply...BECAUSE THEY CAN HUGE LITHIUM RESERVES IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY. The Chinese are also more advanced in battery tech than the Japanese or Koreans. Hence the packs increase the price by only $6,000.

Your comments incredibly racist and would merit you being fired for making such comments about your company's business partners. I hope you were saying this on a company computer.

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I guess you've never worked with a contract manufacturer. You can't dump them. We already work with 4 companies, and the problems I described were with one of the better ones. One of them just flat out cooked the books and ripped us off. And we still work with THEM too!

If you dump a contract manufacturer, you just end up with no product to sell. Which is a problem. You can try to switch to another supplier the next year with your new product if you want. Sometimes that succeeds.

My company still works with Chinese manufacturers, because even with the cheating, it's the best deal going. But that DOESN'T mean the aren't cheating. Cause they are.

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cover, you hit on a bit of a problem.

Knowingly working with a company that cheats, makes WhyNot's company cheaters too.

The catch is that if they dump them, they're not competitive. Their competition likely works with (cheating) Chinese companies. WhyNot's company would then go out of business.

The culture of accepting these practices has been injected into the US, as the consumer puts price above everything else (and investors put profits above everything else). To resolve these issues, we need to force the consumer to stop accepting sub-par practices, at the expense of price. The only way to do that is through regulation.

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for one time deal, yes i can understand, because the over head. ask people who worked with a contractor to build a home in here in the US, how many people will not complain their contractors are cheating!! should we generalize this about American people and American culture!! but for long term supplier relationship, people generally appreciate each other's business, domestically or internationally.

"you can't dump a contractor" for a long term supply relationship is flat false. most Chinese companies are in very competitive business, none hold any monopoly position at all, and a foreign company usual hold a dominant position relative to the Chinese suppliers, you have a lot more options and leverage then your Chinese counter party. if you are unhappy with all Chinese suppliers you can switch to other countries. India, Philippine, Vietnam and many other countries now have much cheaper labor than China, and many these countries have large English speaking population and very westernized legal/financial system. in one word, you have options and you(foreign buyers) are at a dominant position, if you chose to work with a cheater for not a single deal, but a long term business relation can claim no high moral ground.

i am not here to defend your Chinese contractors or Chinese business in general, I am sick of generalize every bad news to Chinese people or Chinese culture.

Chinese product safety regulation is still lagging behind that of western countries and business deals are perhaps not up to western standards, but China is a much poor country and just begin to build a commerce driven society in as short as 20 years. these two facts are more than enough to explain all the gap. and most people chose to do business with Chinese companies indicate, In similar economic situation, Chinese companies are better to deal with.

now we are arguably in the mist of the largest financial fraud that drag the world into deep recession. should we generalize it to indicate the current moral stands of the western world? why we feel like to generalize anything Chinese?

I am Chinese American, as a group we have some of the lowest crime rate, highest credit score, very low default rate. does this tell somthing of the "moral stand" of Chinese people or culture?

for WhyNot, i challenge you to exposure your cheating suppliers(with evidence) and cut the tie. show some courage and backbone. there is a website alibaba.com you can rate your Chinese suppliers just like ebay.

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Here's the price breakthrough: BYD and other Chinese battery makers in the LiFePo4 business are actually years ahead of the rest of the world. This includes the Japanese and the Koreans. Even if the rest of the world catches up with the Chinese in the LiFePo4 technology space, the Chinese still has a natural advantage. This natural advantage is the fact that China has the world's largest lithium deposit. The Japanese and the Koreans have none. This is why BYD can charge only $6000 more per car for the DM power pack.

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