Euro-spec Honda Insight rated at 53 mpg (US), 101 g/km CO2
by Sam Abuelsamid on Jan 8th 2009 at 10:23AM 
Click above for a gallery of the new Honda Insight
As the clock runs down to the official unveiling of Honda's new Insight for 2009, more information is leaking out of Europe, this time directly from Honda. A new brochure covering the entire European lineup, including the Insight, has gone live on the Honda Belgium site. According to the brochure, the new Insight's 1.3L engine is rated at 87 hp in European trim and it's paired up with a 13 hp motor in the IMA system. On the EU test cycle, the new hybrid is rated at a combined 53 mpg (US) while emitting just 101 g/km of CO2.
We had an opportunity to drive the US-spec Insight just before Christmas but we can't tell you anything else about it right now. For that you'll have to wait until 9am EST Sunday morning. Come back then to read all about the Insight and stick around for our full coverage of the Detroit Auto Show. Thanks to Julian for the tip!
Update: Honda has pulled the pdf file from its site, but you can find it here.
Gallery: Honda Insight concept
(Source: Honda Belgium]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Red 2:56PM (1/08/2009)
I'm confused. Isn't the HCH rated 61mpg on the EU test cycle? If the Insight uses a similar powertrain, but presumably slightly less weight (since it's slightly smaller than the HCH), how did that rating change so significantly? A change in testing methods? And yes, I know Honda's goal was not to eke out ridiculously high numbers, but rather focus on value and emissions.
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Sam Abuelsamid 2:57PM (1/08/2009)
The 61 mpg figure is in imperial gallons converted from 4.6L/100km. In US gallons that converts to 51 mpg.
jharlan 10:58AM (1/08/2009)
Honda is producing what the market is demanding, this Insight is as economical as the previous models in a car that is big enough to be useful. I predict they won't be able to build them fast enough to satisfy demand. What could trump this victory would be a diesel hybrid which should get 80 mpg and be sold in the United States. What is the problem here? I am sick of hearing of these new highly efficient diesels being offered everywhere but the U.S. Aren't our elected officials listening? Obviously not.
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Collin 12:03PM (1/08/2009)
well its a crap chute right now with how diesel emissions will go in the next few years. If the a urea system is required to meet emission standards, I bought that you'll see a diesel hybrid here in the states anytime soon, expessially in a car under 20 or even 25k.
Still no word on whether or not it will have a manual trans option.
jharlan 1:38PM (1/08/2009)
You may be right, Collin. They are making some progress cleaning up diesel emissions, however, so who knows what the future will bring. If VW can do it, why not Ford. What I would like to see is a PHEV with a very small diesel kicker for range extension, because we produce all our own power with a 35 KW Pelton Wheel. This would be very clean because the majority of the time we would be sneaking down the road on electricity. We are off the grid, and I highly recommend it.This would be worth some extra money to me.
noz 1:45PM (1/08/2009)
Because diesels don't solve the problem we are in....they just compound it. Eventually something other than an IC engine will have to be put in a hybrid to offer the "hybrid" part of the powerplant.
PeterG 2:32PM (1/08/2009)
"Still no word on whether or not it will have a manual trans option."
There almost certainly no chance of a manual. In which case the Prius has a much better hybrid system.
The only thing going for the Honda IMA, is that you can use a manual transmission. Maybe the CR-Z (hope).
But if you are doing automatics, the Prius is much better. It gets rid of the complexity of a transmission and replaces it with simple orbital gears. Much more reliable and it allows you to run in electric only mode without rotating the engine.
Red 4:53PM (1/08/2009)
"But if you are doing automatics, the Prius is much better. It gets rid of the complexity of a transmission and replaces it with simple orbital gears. Much more reliable and it allows you to run in electric only mode without rotating the engine."
@PeterG,
You're talking about a CVT. Which the Insight has and has had before. And the Prius having a "better" hybrid system is only an opinion shared by eco-snobs. They're two completely different systems, but neither is "better" than the other because they both rely on gasoline internal combustion engines; the IMA is a simpler, cost effective system for Honda to produce. The trade-off for purchasing a mild system over a full system is the lower price, which, quite frankly is attractive enough for many people to consider should they actually want a hybrid. But make no mistake; if Honda is building as many hybrids as it claims it's building, it will challenge the Prius for efficiency, which means much of nothing if neither company comes close to 70mpg or better. If I'm not mistaken, the highest EPA rated non-hybrid four passenger car in America is currently rated at 68mpg cty/70mpg hwy. A gent from Edmunds recently tested it and recorded a 72mpg average in predominantly highway driving from Los Angeles to Colorado. Said car is to start at about $16,000, cheaper than the Insight and cheaper than the Prius by a fairly wide margin. The trade-off is slighly higher emissions (110g/km vs. 101g/km for Insight and a rumored >100g/km for Prius) and current limited production ability, making them difficult to find. But it does make hybrids seem exactly like what they are...overhyped.
So your point is completely moot.
jharlan 6:58PM (1/08/2009)
Noz, I agree completely. Until what is necessary to solve the problem is available, we will have to use what we can get.
Chris M 9:36PM (1/08/2009)
Red, seriously, I'd have to question you on what non-hybrid 4 passenger car was EPA rated at "68mpg cty/70mpg hwy". The highest mileage one that I'm aware of, the Geo Metro, had an EPA rating just over 40 mpg, and it has been discontinued for some time now. I would have thought that something with that kind of EPA rating would have made the news, or at least mentioned by name on Autoblog Green.
Rajame 10:20PM (1/08/2009)
I'm with you. Started saving for a diesel CRV that should of come out for the 2010 model year. No luck with that! Been driving Honda's since 1992. My 1994 Civic still running strong. Sorry Honda, if the Rogue comes out in a diesel I'm gone!!!!!
harlanx6 10:32PM (1/08/2009)
Thanks Rojame. I was beginning to think I was the only one who wanted the options the rest of the world has!
PeterG 3:08PM (1/09/2009)
@Red.
I couldn't disagree more. It is more from an engineering perspective that I prefer the Toyota system. They Do away with the transmission. That makes their system mechanically simpler and more reliable. The CVT add a level of complexity not in the Toyota system.
No current car gets near 70MPG AFAIK. The highest rated car I ever remember seeing was the original Insight hybrid with 5speed manual.
Sam Abuelsamid 6:16PM (1/09/2009)
PeterG, that's not accurate. Toyota has a planetary gear CVT system just like Honda, Ford, and GM. The Honda system is actually far simpler than Toyota's, hence the lower cost.
Snowdog 10:23AM (1/10/2009)
Sam, that is not accurate.
Ford: licensed the Toyota system, so may use it in some vehicles, it doesn't count since it IS the Toyota system.
GM: Which system? certainly not the mild hybrid. The dual mode system uses planetary gear system combined with a conventional multigear transmission.
Honda IMA electric motor is essentially integrated with the ICE, it rotates in lock step with the ICE it has no interaction with transmission (which in theory can be any type of conventional transmission). Hondas CVT is a conventional belt driven CVT (and has had it's share of problems).
HSD in the toyota has no conventional transmission. There is no ratio changing mechanism at all. A simple planetary gear doesn't change ratios. It is a power combining mechanism that combines power from ICE and two electric motors to vary the speed to road. It is by far the most simple, elegant and robust hybrid drive system currently on the road.
Sam Abuelsamid 10:44AM (1/10/2009)
The Ford and Toyota hybrid systems were developed at the same time and independently. Toyota did get their system to production first. However, each company had separate patents on some of the technology. Each company cross-licensed their patents to each other in their settlement and no licensing money ever changed hands over hybrid patents. Ford's hybrid system is not Toyota's and vice versa.
Again you are in accurate on the GM Two mode system. Yes it uses planetary gears just like the Toyota, Ford and Honda systems. The fixed gear ratios are achieved by using clutches to lock some elements of the planetary gear set just the same way a conventional automatic transmission does. Precisely the same thing could be achieved with the other systems if clutches were added.
A planetary gear set can achieve fixed ratios by locking either the ring gear, the planet gear carrier of the sun gear. This is exactly what happens in every traditional automatic transmission on the road.
harlanx6 12:46PM (1/10/2009)
Thanks, Sam. You are the authority. This is the best blog if you want to understand automotive technology.
Snowdog 2:45PM (1/10/2009)
We are getting off tangent the orginal point was Toyota HSD simplicity compared to the Honda IMA.
Honda:
IMA is not an orbital gear EVT. It use a pancake motor between the ICE and belt CVT (that has been having significant problems). That was the main point. By comparison Toyota has a simple single robust planetary gear set with practically no reported issues.
But as far as the off tangent discussions.
GM:
"The fixed gear ratios are achieved by using clutches to lock some elements of the planetary gear set just the same way a conventional automatic transmission does."
The whole point I am talking about is Toyotas simplicity. One planetary gear set. No clutches bands or any mechanical control bits to fail. The GM Two mode has multiple planetary gearsets + clutches band to achieve some additional ratios (in addition to the power mixing capabilities like the toyota). The GM system has the full complexity of a standard automatic transmission, the toyota does not.
Ford:
I have no argument as I always knew they were essentially the same system. Why bring this into a Honda vs Toyota discussion. Though I would like to see information about cross licensing.
Toyota was many years ahead of Ford to market, I haven't read anything about Ford patents being traded. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it before. Everything I read indicated Ford late to the game and licensing Toyota Tech. If you have a link that indicates more trading of tech than licensing, I would like to read it.
Killroy 12:07PM (1/08/2009)
Wow, 53 mpg combined, that is the same as the original Insight (with new MPG ratings).
But like diesel ratings, people are driving the Insight I to 65 mpg. I drive my Insight around 70 mpg.
I dought that the Insight II will be as good in the real world. Its science. The Insight II will be heavyer, have more rolling resistance and its aero drag area will be greater.
The prolem with diesels in the US is the extra cost of the engine and the emmision system. VW is probably loosing money on the new US Jetta TDI. Making a hybrid diesel would be uber expensive.
The other problem is emmisions. 80 mpg of deisel is equivilent to 68 mpg gas in terms of energy and C02. So a decade old Insight would be the same as a brand new diesel hybrid? Depends on how you drive. I dont think diesles will ever be as clean as the Prius. So what if it meets T2 Bin5, the Prius is much cleaner than that already.
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paulwesterberg 11:47AM (1/08/2009)
The US model will probably use a 1.6L engine and will only get 43mpg.
They should put flat hubcaps on it.
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