EEStor and GM up a tree, t-a-l-k-i-n-g? [w/VIDEO]
Once again, the internetz are abuzz with rumors and speculation concerning EEStor. This time the hubbub concerns the exact nature of their relationship with General Motors. If you're the last person on the planet who hasn't heard of them, EEStor is a company headquartered in Austin, Texas that claims to have the Holy Grail technology of the electric car industry. Namely, an ultracapacitor that can hold lots more energy than a lithium battery, doesn't degrade over time and will be relatively inexpensive to manufacture. Since they haven't shown the world any sort of tangible proof of this black box, skepticism abounds.
The latest round of excited whispers involves a conversation held between GM's advanced battery boss, Denise Gray, and GM-Volt.com blogger, Lyle Dennis, in which the association between EEStor and the automaker was discussed. Hank Green from EcoGeek happened to be standing nearby with a camera, happily, and captured the exchange on video, which we have for you after the break. The most provocative part of the brief exchange was Ms. Gray's reply to Lyle's query as to whether she had seen a working prototype. She replied, "... I probably shouldn't say if I've received parts or not, that's kind of confidential." While it may sound in print as though she might possibly know something, the video makes clear to us that it's more likely she doesn't. Hit the jump to watch it for yourselves.
[Source: GM-Volt.com / EcoGeek]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Stan Wellaway 1:29PM (2/02/2009)
Hmm.., from her responses there, I would tend towards believing that -- just like everybody else -- she has seen nothing of any significance at all yet from EeStor.
Reply
Nick 3:47AM (2/03/2009)
All I've got to say is that she's an excellent communicator. Haven't heard many people talk that clearly and to the point.
John Smithson 12:25AM (2/07/2009)
Anything's possible. But some things are less possible than others. In fact, darn near impossible. That's EEStor's ultracapacitor.
Reply
jharlan 2:02PM (2/02/2009)
I have been keenly interested in this concept for some time. This concept is theoretically possible. If this can be produced it would be so monumental as to rival the importance of the discovery of the transistor. So important that it would be the #1 target for industrial as well as international espionage. It makes the secrecy of this company completely understandable. There are entities that would think nothing of kidnapping or killing people involved to obtain this technology. Just think about never having to buy a battery of any kind again, of all energy using products being manufactured with integral, permanent, solid state energy storage. It's mind boggling! I think these guys have something monumental. I'm not the only one.
Reply
john 2:28PM (2/02/2009)
One of the problems with EEStor's claims is that it has obtained two patents on its technology. But reading these patents does not enable you to make the supercapacitor that EEStor claims.
EEStor says the purity of the powders is the key. But other researchers in this area -- and it is an area that has a lot of interested companies funding work -- have tried using the same materials and structure and it does not work. The dielectric breaks down with much lower currents at 3,500 volts.
If EEStor has a way around this problem, they needed to describe it in their patent for the patent to mean anything. (The second patent, since the first one only claimed a process to make pure powders.) They did not. Thus the skepticism they face.
harlanx6 4:07PM (2/02/2009)
I understand the skepticism is well founded, and I don't disagree with your well written explanation. It may be some time before ultracapacitor technology can replace batteries, but the implications are enormous. I think we may hear next about graphene as the energy storage media in ultracacitors. It's coming. It may come incrementally. When is the question. I may not even live to see it, but I will still keep a close watch on EEStor. When it comes it will be revolutionary to nearly every industry.
Tim 2:10PM (2/02/2009)
Denise Grey is obviously an intelligent, well spoken person and I believe that GM is open to ANYTHING that will give them an edge in the fiercely competitive EV arena.
GM’s Voltec technology is an excellent way to maintain both the 40-mile EV commuting “sweet spot” AND the 300+ occasional trip range that people are accustomed to while keeping the battery pack as small (and inexpensive) as possible.
I also believe that GM is waiting and hoping for EEStor to deliver a WORKING EESU which will dramatically lower Voltec’s cost and weight.
It's nice to hear that GMs' doors and minds are open, but now it’s EEStor’s job to PROVE IT!
I hope we won’t be disappointed.
Reply
vfx 2:53PM (2/02/2009)
Autobloggreen's worst graphic EVER
Reply
Domenick Yoney 3:16PM (2/02/2009)
That would be my fault. Because of the new size, I couldn't recycle an older image and I was rushing to get the piece done quickly. I'll try to avoid hastily drawn stick men in the future.
vfx 3:23PM (2/02/2009)
Given EEstor's dubious existence, perhaps giving them a slapdash treatment is all they deserve.
:)
jpm 8:35PM (2/02/2009)
I loved the graphic. Keep up the good work!
gorr 5:15PM (2/02/2009)
They cannot figure out now how to power a limp car with a battery. Imagine powering trucks, airplanes, ships, machinery, electrical generation. These batteries talk is just there to protect toxic petrol. Gm, toyota, general electric, caterpillar, tony karts, etc are just in a sect of criminals. They even arrested inventors in the past, they pay numerous journalists and madscientists to tell that there is no energy anywhere so they can cut forest for palm oil.
I said and i repeat to power one car with a water electrolyser and put this car on sale in a showroom near my town, is it clear, i know that actual car manufacturers managers are reading this blog, i live in canada where a battery don't work in summer so imagine in winter. The car im talking about exist in philipine since 1968, even if big oil, goverments, journalists, secret banking and electronic spying try to erase you thereafter after selling water technology, me i will appreciate the car and the seller.
Reply
kballs 9:30PM (2/02/2009)
LOL, gorr again with his perpetual motion water powered car, available since 1968, and I bet gorr drives one! Just pour in tap water and it goes, the electrolyzer splits water into hydrogen/oxygen and it runs on.... WATER! No outside energy inputs!
There ARE solid powder catalysts that can be added to water to split the hydrogen/oxygen molecules, but guess what? They took energy to make (AKA an outside energy input)!
The only energy converter/generator to ever run on water is going to require something called "heavy water" (takes a lot of water, time, and energy to extract it from normal water with centrifuges), along with uranium. Both heavy water and uranium are very toxic and radioactive, so you're not going to see such a reactor in a [earth-based] vehicle... which might be perfect for gorr since they're already out in space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water_reactor
Chris M 11:33PM (2/02/2009)
"limp car"? I wouldn't consider 0-60 in 3.9 sec. and a top speed of 120 to be "limp" at all. Just because you can't figure out how to do it doesn't mean no one else can.
Yes, Gorr, there are auto company people who read this blog, but they don't pay any attention to you because your rants make you sound like a kook. They have engineers that know all about "water electrolyzers", and they know that they take a lot more energy to run than can be recovered from H2 fuel coming out. Using an electrolyzer to fuel a H2 fuel cell would take at least 3x more energy than the fuel cell would produce. Using an electrolyzer to fuel an internal combustion engine is far worse, it would take at least 14x more energy to run the electrolyzer than the IC engine would produce!
Those auto company folks also know that Stan Meyers is a convicted fraud, and they have no intention of copying his fraud the way Dingle of the Philippines did.
kballs: There are several metals that will react with water to produce a metal oxide and H2, but they aren't "catalysts" as they get used up in the process. You are right on one thing, it does take a lot more energy to produce those metals than the H2 made that way can release.
j 12:48PM (2/10/2009)
What the...A water electrolyser needs a power source to electrolyse the water. There is medicine for what ails you my recently released friend...hehhehheh
zennstockholder 5:56PM (2/02/2009)
ZENN Cars of Toronto is supposed to hold exclusive rights to EEStor, at least as far as four wheel vehicles go. I wonder what ZENN thinks of all this cosying up between EEStor and GM.
Reply
Chris M 11:49PM (2/02/2009)
From Ms. Gray's comments, it appears that EEStor sent GM some literature, but no actual working prototype to test. I'm guessing EEStor was probably trying to get GM to invest the same way they got Zenn to invest, but GM is a bit less gullible than the folks at Zenn, and EEStor hasn't even demonstrated a small working prototype. Also, GM no longer has the money to invest in questionable long shots.
Reply
zennstockholder 12:28AM (2/03/2009)
Chris M, a fair comment about 'long shot' but what is it you don't understand about the term "exclusive rights"? And, ZENN will do just fine; if EEStor works out that'll be the icing on the cake--lots of icing.
Chris M 1:30AM (2/03/2009)
Oh, I understand "exclusive rights" just fine, that means either Ms. Gray is mistaken (confusing EEStor with a different company?) or EEStor is actively looking for other clients.
If EEStor is looking for other clients, than they either had permission to do so from Zenn, or they are out looking for money and don't care about honoring their agreements.
It would be interesting to find out exactly which one of those is the case, and if you really are a "zenn stockholder" you should be concerned.
GoZenn 8:51AM (2/03/2009)
According the the Zenn website, they have exclusive rights to use the Eestor ultra-capacitor in cars weighing up to 1,400 kgs curb weight. All GM has to do is make their EV's weigh more.
Reply