USDA and EPA talking about raising ethanol blend in gasoline
Photo by dichohecho. Licensed under Creative Commons license 2.0.
To say that ethanol raises some people's hackles is an understatement. Still, even with the controversy and the downturn, American ethanol policy may be moving forward. Bloomberg is reporting that new Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack has started talks between his department, the USDA, and the Environmental Protection Agency focused on raising the amount of ethanol that is blended in gasoline in the U.S. For those with short memories, Vilsack used to be the governor of Iowa, a state that grows its fair share of corn. While the Bloomberg report does not mention if Vilsack differentiated between cellulosic or corn-based ethanol, he did say that increasing the blend amounts would be "one way in the short term to create new opportunities [for ethanol]." Since all large-scale ethanol prodution in the U.S. at this point is corn-based, we have to assume Vilsack is referring to that type of biofuel.
[Source: Bloomberg]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Lad 5:00PM (2/07/2009)
I understand that most cars can use up to 10% alocohol and in states like California there is a 6% or so limit. Upping the limit to 10% might fill the tank; however, because ethonol has less energy density and most cars are designed to run on 100% gasoline, the mileage difference might well be a wash in reducing the use of foreign oil.
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ale 5:55PM (2/07/2009)
While the Bloomberg report does not mention if Vilsack differentiated between cellulosic or corn-based ethanol,
[If Vilsack doesn't (as in doesn't use cellulosic)]
This is irresponsible on both of these agencies parts. We can't keep using the corn the way we are now; we need to be using the corn stalk... yes the stalk, to make the ethanol not the edible part. Also, its bad enough for the boating industry to have 10% ethanol, I can only imagine 20-25%. I dont think there would be any problem with cars for 20-25, but anymore, say 50 or so, and I begin to wonder how modern fuel systems would be able to handle it.
Don't forget that while the ethanol adds power, it comes at the expense of fuel economy, which we can definately not afford. Sure some of that now is ethanol. but I doubt any of it has taken into account the amount of fuel and money to transport it all
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Michael 6:53PM (2/07/2009)
STUPID. STUPID. STUPID STUPID STUPID.
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DaveD 8:58PM (2/07/2009)
This makes me so friggin mad I can hardly see straight. What is wrong with these idiots. I'm tired of getting having ethanol shoved down my throat and subsidized by a bunch of special interest groups totally supporting corn states and the rest of us paying for it.
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Michael 9:56PM (2/07/2009)
bullshit bullshit bullshit
$ $ $
political bullshit political bullshit political bullshit
run them out of office
run them out
run them out
"repeat this one million times"
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Jeff Grant 10:42PM (2/07/2009)
Well, corn is only going to go so far, so maybe a positive would be that there would be a decent market for ethanol by the time cellulosic gets going in some kind of volume. We all know the number of E85 stations isn't going to do it any time soon. If anything, maybe the auto industry could finally offer some high compression engines due to the higher octane, and cancel out some of the mileage loss. Can we say boooost!
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why not the LS2LS7? 11:23PM (2/07/2009)
No thanks. Food costs enough already, and ethanol has less energy content, so we'll be getting ripped off.
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bryan 12:56PM (2/08/2009)
It's not surprising that the former governor of Iowa, a major grain- and ethanol-producing state, would back increasing the ethanol content of fuel to 10-15%. However, this will certainly help cellulosic ethanol efforts such as Range Fuels (www.rangefuels.com) and a project run by the University of Tennessee.
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Aureon Kwolek 5:18PM (2/08/2009)
For years, Brazil has been putting 24% ethanol in all their gasoline, for use in non-flex-fueled vehicles. Many states have oxygenation programs mandating a certain percentage of ethanol, in order to replace carcinogenic MTBE. If you didn’t have ethanol as an oxygenator, you would have more air pollution from unburned gasoline residues. And in cities you would have less oxygen in the air to breathe. Ethanol provides oxygen for combustion, speeds up combustion, and burns-off the slow-burn gasoline residues.
Outboard engines, and small engines should be made to handle ethanol, and they can be, with just minor modifications. Blender pumps will solve these issues. Gasoline should be available with just the minimum percentage of ethanol, for those who want it. Blender pumps should dispense E-Minimum, E-10, E-20, E-30 and E-85. That would satisfy everyone. Then the EPA wouldn’t have to worry about outboards and small engines, which is currently holding them back, at the expense of those who want higher percentages of ethanol. This would give everyone the right to choose at the pump.
Corn ethanol is not just fuel. The other component is food. The byproducts are corn oil and distillers grains. Corn oil can be used for human consumption or for biodiesel. The distillers grains supplement the meat, dairy, poultry, and fish industries and boost food production. So when you say ethanol subsidies, you’re actually talking about the food you’re eating as well. The wild spread of ethanol blender pumps will also pass all or part of that 45 cent per gallon subsidy on to you, the consumer, instead of big oil companies. You’ll also get cheaper fuel.
There are plans to grow Algae at corn ethanol and sweet sorghum refineries, from refinery waste products CO2, waste heat, and nutrient-rich waste water effluent. So, support for corn ethanol will soon translate into support for Algae Based fuels, feed, and food products. Algae grown on ethanol plant waste will become an important feedstock for producing more ethanol, more biodiesel, bio-crude oil, animal feed supplements, fertilizer, and even high protein nutritional supplements for human consumption that retail for $18 a pound.
Most of the ethanol subsidies are blending subsidies that go to big oil companies who blend ethanol with gasoline at regional terminals. That entails the expense of shipping ethanol to a central location and then back to the pump. Ethanol Blender Pumps are chipping away at that, because locally produced ethanol can go directly to the pump, and the 45 cent per gallon ethanol blending subsidy goes to the retailer instead, who blends at the pump and passes all or part of the subsidy and savings on to the consumer.
Ethanol subsidies now total less than $6 Billion a year. This is nothing compared to throwing $200 Billion a year down the drain for an oil war that was sold to us on false pretenses, and giving away $40 to $50 Billion a year in subsidies to well established Big Oil Companies, that are making record breaking multi-billion dollar profits.
If you want to whine about subsidies whine about that. And while you’re at it, whine about coal and natural gas subsidies. Ethanol subsidies are a drop in the bucket, compared to the cost of oil wars, the total energy subsidies paid-out, and paying floating interest on our yearly $500 Billion Foreign Oil Trade Deficit, which we pay for with debt instruments. You pay little or no floating interest on domestic biofuels.
Every Dollar we spend on ethanol subsidies returns over $10 in tax revenue, fuel savings, and economic spin-off from the creation of jobs and economic stimulus. Money back in your pocket. The ethanol industry has created over 320,000 new jobs. Ethanol subsidies pay for themselves many times over.
Instead of listening to people who don’t know what they’re talking about on the web, listen to someone who has the facts: In a recent article called “Ethanol Innovator Driven to Replace Oil”, Thom Gabrukiewicz quoted Jeff Broin, head of Poet, the largest ethanol producer in the world: "In 2007, the (ethanol) tax incentive, that tax break, was $3.3 billion, but the ethanol industry returned $4.6 billion in tax revenue to the Treasury," Broin says. "We saved $8 billion in farm payments because we eliminated farm payments for the first time in almost 40 years. We saved the consumer $40 to $60 billion in gas prices with extra supplies that kept prices down. We added $47 billion to the Gross Domestic Product." (Jeff Broin – Poet Ethanol)
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CNCMike 11:15AM (2/09/2009)
It's nice to see a little truth about ethanol in the middle of all the oil company sponsored and right wing propagated myths. Engines always run better on ethanol than gas. They run cooler, will last 2 to 3 times longer and when built to run on ethanol will get considerably better mileage than gas or diesel.
The oil companies are so scared of ethanol's superior fuel properties that in South Dakota and several other states they are putting what is called natural gasoline in the ethanol. It is actually very volatile, hard to dispose of natural gas liquid condensates that have been banned in California and several other states. This is done because this natural gasoline evaporates very easily and casues vapor lock in vehicles using E-85. They want people to get frustrated at not being able to start their cars when they are warmed up and stop using the E-85.
DGH 1:03PM (2/09/2009)
you lost me at:
"...in order to replace carcinogenic MTBE."
everything else was blah, blah, blah...
Since when was MTBE a known carcinogen? Drinking the pure stuff are you?
Zeph 7:43PM (2/08/2009)
The ethanol content in gasoline should be raised to 100% :)
Would have to convert a few cars, ie all of them, but it would end economic problems, as well as foreign policy problems, for a very long time...
Just stop relating Ethanol to corn and you'll think right about the issue. Read David Blume's book: Alcohol can be a gas.
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Bill 9:04PM (2/08/2009)
Drop the import tax and allow refiners to buy ethanol on the world market.
Instead of subsidizing inefficient corn to ethanol producers here in the U.S. (does ADM really need more government handouts?)
Forget cellulosic ethanol - no company will even tell you what it costs them currently (even with direct subsidies twice that of corn-based ethanol)
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Ed 8:01AM (2/09/2009)
The Ethanol industry has received appx, $25 billion in subsidies and wanting an additional $85 billion. Yes Dorthy, money does grow on trees.
If the biodiesel industry could received some of this money we could all enjoy the 40 mpg diesel cars like the 09 VW Jetta, green car of the year.
I pay $1.79 for gasoline and $1.99 for diesel and get more than twice the milage on the diesel. We are definately going down the wrong road. Diesel works for europe, why not here.
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CNCMike 12:17PM (2/09/2009)
Actually we would be better off running diesel engines on alcohol too. A recent contract by the EPA converted a volkswagen TDI engine to run on metanol and ethanol for testing purposes to develope an alcohol electric hybrid. They used 19:1 compression for methanol and 18:1 for ethanol, a low pressure gasoline style fuel pump injecting into the manifold, spark plugs for idle and low speed and compression ignition for cruising under load. They achieved 22% better mileage than with diesel and thermal efficiency was measured at 43%. More than double that of gas or diesel engines.
Tim 8:48AM (2/09/2009)
The lobbiests can be very powerful and effective when dealing with the political prostitutes in DC.
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BGJ 1:02PM (2/09/2009)
I would be ok with this so long as the corn subsidies stopped and cellulosic ethanol was given some subsidy.
More importantly CAFE should be required to scale back the MPG requirements to reflect the loss in MPG from increased ethanol.
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max37 12:23AM (2/26/2009)
aueron is correct...ethanol can be used at a higher compression and achieve the same results as michigans ice we are just to stupid iowa burns up to 16% ethanol blend and the consumer does not even know it i grow corn i burn it to heat my machine shed during the winter and i do not have to buy lp or natural gas so i will continue to drive my toyota tundra e85 pickup and burn corn to work on my equipment and eat sweet corn in the summer corn flakes(frosted) during the winter and you all burn saudi and south american oil, is this a great country or what kma
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