Biodiesel can't void your warranty?
Most manufacturers, including heavy-hitters like Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz, allow the use of a 5 percent biodiesel blend (aka B5) without violating the terms of the car's original factory warranty. What happens if you use a higher biodiesel concentration? That's a good question, and the answer isn't particularly clear at the moment. According to Steve Keyes, Volkswagen's director of public relations, "All Volkswagen TDI models are warranted for the use of up to a B5 blend. Blends of biodiesel higher than B5 void the Volkswagen warranty."
Case closed, right? Not so fast, say the Northwest Biofuels Association and the Oregon Auto Dealer's Association. These two organizations have released a joint statement suggesting that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act from 1975 doesn't allow a manufacturer to void a vehicle's warranty based on the fuel that the owner is using to power it.
We're not so sure it's a good idea to go against a manufacturer's stated recommendations without knowing the consequences, regardless of whether it voids the warranty or not. Even if a vehicle seems to run just fine on high biodiesel blends, it's important to remember that modern diesel engines and emissions systems have computers that may make assumptions about the fuel that's being used. We'd wager that this is an issue that will continue to be hashed out in the coming months and years.
[Source: Green Inc. via Domestic Fuel | Photo: .imelda]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
BoneHeadOtto 2:44PM (2/23/2009)
So if i want a new engine before my warranty is up i can just fill my WRX up with Diesel and they will fix it under warranty. Yeah that sounds fair.
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Throwback 3:35PM (2/23/2009)
my thoughts exactly. Some fool will undoubtedly try it though.
ale 4:33PM (2/23/2009)
yea, just what I was thinking, where in the hell did this act come from?
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why not the LS2LS7? 4:46PM (2/23/2009)
There's wrong about that. The Magnusson-Moss act simply says you cannot be forced to buy things from the manufacturer (a kind of back-door bundle).
It doesn't say that manufacturers cannot void the warranty for things that are outside a reasonable spec. The reason VW doesn't allow BD >5% is because of intermittent lubricity problems. That's a reasonable spec, and this doesn't cover that.
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Kumar 5:19PM (2/23/2009)
I thought i read somewhere that there were issues with the particular filters clogging up prematurely, but I can't remember if it's still due to the sulfur concentration in diesel, or to improperly 'refined' biodiesel, like home-brews. I know B99 worked with the previous gen engines, not so sure with all of the emissions gizmos in use these days to keep them in spec.
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dr61 9:15PM (2/23/2009)
No; the issue with BioDiesel is with fuel dilution of the engine lubricating oil. Fuel is post-combustion injected occasionally to clean out the particulate filter. BioD does not vaporize as well as standard Diesel and ends up being sucked into the lubricating oil when this occurs. The engines can be tuned to use BioD or regular Diesel; since bioD is not widely available, the engines must be tuned to use regular D2.
If generation II bioD is developed to be more similar to regular D2 then this problem will be easily solved. Or they will have to develop some sort of sensing device to determine the type of fuel.
why not the LS2LS7? 12:20PM (2/24/2009)
Kumar, I think you're thinking of the waste vegetable oil folks. Those who run on cooking grease have a tough time filtering the material well enough to get out particles that clog up and wreck the engine (over time). By the time you get a fine enough screen to catch the particles, the oil won't really flow through it quickly enough to be useful.
I think using a reactor to make real BioDiesel fixes this problem.
Nixon 5:23PM (2/23/2009)
Car makers don't warranty fuel, they warranty their "materials and workmanship" of their engines. If you buy pure dino diesel, and you get some really bad fuel and it ruins your engine, it won't be covered. For example, using dino diesel with too much sulfur will void your warranty on your emissions system.
Likewise, if you use biodiesel, and the biodiesel ruins your engine, it also won't be covered either.
Magnuson comes into play because the car makers can't just test your fuel and void your warranty on their "materials and workmanship" just because of your fuel choice. The fuel has to be the cause of the problem, not the car maker's "materials and workmanship".
But good luck when it comes to proving what caused the damage. What happens if the car maker says it wasn't their "materials and workmanship" that caused the problem, it was the biodiesel -- and you say it wasn't the biodiesel, it was the car maker's faulty materials and/or workmanship?
The car maker can tell you they won't pay for your warranty claim, and you get to sue them under Magnuson. You've got the burden of proof that you know more about the car maker's motors, and why something failed than they do. You have to prove that the biodiesel was not the cause, and that the real cause was faulty materials and/or faulty workmanship.
So yes, Magnuson protects car owners from having their warranty voided without any consideration to the actual cause of the failure. But in practice it really doesn't change anything.
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pdx 11:45PM (2/23/2009)
A car manufacturer can void your warranty for whatever they want.
However, what the Magnusen Moss act does do in this regard, is they put the "burden of proof" on the manufacturer.
Legally the manufacturer has to "prove" that it was - without a doubt - the fuel which caused the problem.
So that is the legal aspect.
But the realistic aspect is that the manufacturer has much deeper pockets than most people. And nothing to lose by stalling. So here is how it might likely play out (note: I put more than 100k miles using B99 on 2 late model diesel vehicles with zero problems):
You have a problem that is somewhere in the fuel system. Maybe bad injector, maybe screwed up filter, any number of possible problems. The dealer finds out that you used biodiesel, and denies your repair.
You have a choice, to either pay up front for the repair or to just keep your broken vehicle.
Say you pay up front, and file a claim with the manufacturer. They deny it. You keep trying, taking time, effort, and whatnot. Finally you have to take the manufacturer to court. You pay legal costs, and take lots of time and hassle - and you win. They reimburse you for the repairs, but you are out the thousands of dollars legal costs and lots and lots of time and hassle. The rest of the time you own your car your account is "flagged" as a problem customer and you never have an easy repair again.
Or say you don't get it fixed, and you try to get the manufacturer to pay for it. They refuse, you fight and fight, they can't prove that it was the fuel - but they still deny it. You take them to court, hassle fight and win. They fix your car, you are out legal costs and hassles. And again, you are flagged as a "problem" customer and never get good service again.
So while legally they can't void your warranty for biodiesel use, they can make any possible repairs very very hard.
It is highly unlikely that professionally made, and quality made biodiesel will cause any problems in the previous generation or older diesel vehicles. The newest crop of "bluemotion" or "clean diesel" type vehicles we don't know enough about yet. I would wait to push the envelope on the new ones until someone else has been a guinea pig - unless you have lots of money to spare...
Now, of course - poorly made, or poorly sourced biodiesel can ruin an engine. But that is not unusual, poor fuel of ANY type can ruin an engine.
Biodiesel is safe. Biodiesel can be very good for the environment if it is made from the right stuff (like recycled cooking oil, hemp, canola, or algae ). Biodiesel can be used in 90% of all diesel engines in any blend, and 99% of diesel engines with up to a B20 blend.
But you are at your own risk.
A 1980 Mercedes 300? Burn whatever you want.
A 2000 VW TDI? Burn good biodiesel up to 100%.
A VW TDI pump deus? Probably stick to B20 or less biodiesel.
A brand new blu-motion Mercedes or VW clean diesel? Stick to B5.
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Jeff 1:57PM (2/24/2009)
I thought the biggest sticking point here (United States) that keeps manufacturers from certifying their vehicles to run on bio-diesel is the lack of fuel standards. I thought they were waiting on SAE, ASTM, ANSI or some other standards organization to come up with a window for what the composition of biodiesel is allowed to be like already exists for gasoline, petro-diesel, JP4, av-gas....etc....
Let me know if I'm wrong and standards do exist - I would be excited to know they do.
Vehicle manufacturers (engineers, lawyers, and actuaries) won't certify what fuel a car will run on without knowing with some assurance what that fuel is. So a new brand new 09 Jetta TDI might run on B20 but no-one will say so formally till the pump that B-20 came from has a seal on it.
I am not trying to knock bio-diesel manufacturers at all here. There are quality manufacturers to be found (and I am sure that gasoline composition sometimes play loose with the standards they are supposed to meet). But whatever thin legal protection a fuel standard gives manufacturers won't live without in this emissions-regulated enviroment.
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66coronet 6:39AM (2/25/2009)
It's not the the motor can not burn biodiesel, it's the exhaust system to meet NOX emissions and what slower burning and not complete burned biodiesel does to the exhaust system in 2009+ vehicles. So when you do your emissions test you may have to replace an exhaust componet because the biodiesel made that certain componet not to do it's job correctly.
It's written that biodiesel does not burn completely and coats the componet.
I'm sure if you ran B20 once a month it might be ok. Try to stay close to B5 or B10 or whatever is recommended.
Cummins allows B20 in the Ram.
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