Tesla rumor roundup: HQ move; 440 volt charging in Model S
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We're waiting not so patiently for the March 26th unveiling of the Tesla Model S (teased above). One thing we can confirm about the new car is that it will have 440V charging capability. CNET notes that there aren't any public 440-volt fast charging stations (although there are some located at private locations, i.e., airports, run by ECOtality). About other details about the powerplant, Tesla spokesperson Rachel Konrad told AutoblogGreen that, "We aren't discussing details of amperage or charge time until after the March 26 launch event." Bummer.
As for the delayed Tesla headquarters move, the Silicon Valley / San Jose Business Jornal is quoting "a source with knowledge of the negotiations" and reports that Tesla HQ will be moving to either Santa Clara or Fremont. Also, manufacturing for the Model S could take place at another location in California. Konrad would only confirm to AutoblogGreen that, "We will be moving the HQ to another location in the San Francisco Bay Area but haven't finalized a deal yet, and I can't comment until that point."
Gallery: Jason Calacanis' Tesla Roadster
[Source: Tesla Motors, CNET, Business Jornal]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jpm 5:37PM (3/12/2009)
Looking good so far.
The model S is going to own the Volt.
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DasBoese 6:10PM (3/12/2009)
How is it going to "own" the Volt?
One's a battery-electric luxury sedan, while the other is a somewhat upscale compact PHEV/EREV. Comparing the two is like comparing a sports car and a semi truck.
ziv 6:22PM (3/12/2009)
Apples and oranges. A $57,000 ($49,500 after tax credit) all electric car with a range or 150 miles vs. a $38,500 approximately ($31,000 after tax credit) ER-EV40 with range extender, there is no similarity whatsoever. The Tesla S cost 60% more and suffers from a huge range anxiety issue. The Volt is a comparative bargain at $31k, and you can drive it all day. If Tesla had built the S with a range extender it would almost be a fair comparison but as it is, the Volt, if built at the price point that the GM reps have been talking about lately, will sell everything they can build before they hit the car lot. By the time they ramp up Volt production in 2012, the economies of scale will already be kicking in, both for the Volt and the S car, and I hope both cars are successful. For a short window of time the Volt may be a great deal, before the tax credit money dries up.
If the Volt is built, and if they price it in the mid to high 30's as they have been saying lately, and if they can bring the battery pack price down as much as they say they can, the Volt will be huge. I want to buy electricity from here in the states, not oil from Canada and Mexico. I like Canada a lot, they are a great neighbor, but oil is a fungible good and every dollar we send to Canada props up the price of the just about the only thing that keeps Chavez, Saud and Putin in business.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
Chris M 6:28PM (3/12/2009)
There are several possible locales in the Bay Area that Tesla could use, either a vacant lot to build from scratch, or modify an existing vacant building for their use. The most intriguing possibility would be an arrangement with Toyota and GM to use their NUMMI assembly plant in Fremont. GM might even be willing to sell their share, if Tesla could manage the financing.
That 440 volt charging is intriguing, they may be planning for "One Hour Park & Charge" facilities at malls, theaters, and roadside diners.
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ev12 7:05PM (3/12/2009)
Ziv,
I think you are misinformed. Volt project has already announced that they won't make the 30K range without the government's help. It'll be more in the 45K to 50K range to be realistic. After all they building li-ion batteries, the most expensive on the market. The Volt has neither advantages of the gas or electric parts. You have to build two internal power sources, gas and electric. S model only uses one. The battery. Volt, you have to have the battery AND the gas parts which means that you'll have to replace that hefty sum at the end of the battery life plus all the gas maintenance during its use. As a consumer you'll be better off with an all electric vehicle or a hybrid like the insight. You'll save 20K off the bat.
They've already mentioned how they aren't going to make money off of the Volt. Volt is a PR campaign project and when it comes to production it'll still be a green face for GM but it won't get them out of their financial problems.
Versus, Tesla is going towards profitability with the actual alternative vehicles that they are building.
Realistically speaking the Volt will be more of a hybrid. I tend to average 60 miles each day and I'm sure more people do so in California than in smaller states. The Volt only goes 40 miles so it'll mean you'll be using gas pretty often.
150 miles is unlikely but more realistically 200 miles for the Model S. The RAV EV with NImH gets 100 to 120 miles. The Rav EV is an SUV with horrible aero coefficent.
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ziv 7:34PM (3/12/2009)
EV12, the news from GM has been pretty good lately, and the pricing issue is where they are making a lot of statements that are better than what they were saying before the tax credit bill got passed for PHEV's. They moaned and moaned about how they couldn't build the Volt for less than $30k like they originally thought, that it would be north of $40k, as Lutz put it. The bill passed and 3 different GM spokespeople mentioned mid to high $30's. GM gamed the tax credit, and with the credit, the Volt will net at about $31k, but if there is high demand, no one will be getting their first Volt anywhere near MSRP. But the Volts MSRP is going to be less than $40k and by a significant amount. I don't know the protocol, but if you go to wikipedia, they have links to this. Or you can go to GM-volt.com, and you will see that GM has stated repeatedly, recently, that they can do this in the mid to high $30's and that the tax credit will bring that number even further down.
The Li Ion issue is a canard that doesn't appear to have any basis in fact any longer. The battery packs are not the issue, pack management is. The battery sounds like it will last 12 years or more if you don't charge it twice a day too frequently. If you drive 60 miles a day the Volt isn't the car for you, but most people drive less than 40 miles a day. The first 10,000 or so Volts won't make sense financially, in the same way that the Tesla S doesn't make sense financially. But when the economies of scale kick in and the Volt sells for less it will come closer to making financial sense. The Volt is about electrifying the auto industry and getting us off of imported oil. We ship $700,000,000,000 overseas for our oil and nearly 50% of that oil goes into our cars, and 15% into our semi's. If half of our cars are ER-EV or BEV by 2021 we can change the worlds economic underpinning, by making oil less expensive and a smaller part of our trade deficit.
Tesla is coming out with a stripped down S car with 150 mile range and an expensive one with longer range. The Tesla will always be range limited and the Volt will always have the advantage of pulling into a gas station, filling up in 5 minutes and pulling out. Faster charging will degrade the battery faster than overnight charging, will pay a daytime electricity premium and will put a much greater strain on the grid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Volt
jharlan 7:17PM (3/12/2009)
In this ever increasingly stratified society, the Tesla models are all definitely interesting to the upper strata. If one has a Hollywood image to mold and uphold, having a Tesla in their multi-car garage states that they care about the environment, and are interested in saving the planet. The rest of us are just trying to get to work and back in the most efficient way we can, keep a roof over our heads, raise our children, and keep food in the fridge, and if we are lucky maybe a beer or 2. To us, Teslas couldn't be more irrelevant.
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Nixon 7:38PM (3/12/2009)
jharlan, Even the Model T started out by being a toy for folks with extra disposable income to spend on toys. Everyone else had to make due with horses. But in time cars became main-stream. Same for color TV's, cell phones, DVD players, home computers, etc... Give them some time, Tesla has plans for a model with a price point closer to the Volt as their next model after the Tesla S.
Meanwhile, yes, it will be those with disposable income that will be the early adapters. It's just the way new technology works. We've just got to be patient, and be glad that there are early adapters out there who are willing to push electric cars forward.
harlanx6 7:55PM (3/12/2009)
You are right, Nixon. I really think a lot of us will be in electric cars in the next decade. I think EVs are the future, but I doubt the Tesla will anything more than a footnote,
.
polo 3:07AM (3/13/2009)
Telsa is pricing the model S to make them profitable. A profitable model S will allow them to release their next model, which they have targeted to be a $30K sedan. Tesla is *highly* relevant if you want to be driving an all-electric sedan 5 years down the road.
jake 10:26PM (3/12/2009)
Roadster is R and starts at $109k. Model S is S and starts at $60k, roughly half. Incidentally (or maybe not), Ford had a Model S proceeding the Model T. The next letter is T... hmm, they plan to make a third car for roughly half of the second, or $30k.
jpm 10:23PM (3/12/2009)
Just of a footnote? Nah. After GM goes extinct here shortly, new companies will move in and replace the old behemoth. GM is to dinosaur and Telsa is to mammal. GM is trying to make a last ditch effort to evolve with the Volt, but that'll lose hands down to the Model S.
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-M.Dub 3:45PM (3/13/2009)
Tesla would have gone under already if they were going to become a footnote in history. They have produced over 200 Roadsters already, for crying out loud and that is no easy feat. How many Volts are on the road??
BlackbirdHighway 10:54PM (3/12/2009)
I just love that now people are arguing which green technology vehicle is going to dominate instead of the bad old days when the argument was which SUV or pickup was going to prevail.
The times they are a changing.
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murc 11:48PM (3/12/2009)
I dont like that decision.
why 440 volts? all the houses in the US are 120/240 volts...so why not make this charge at 240? So if you want to charge this in your garage (like 95% of people will do), they are going to have to buy a transformer as well.
they should stick with 240...the infrastructure is already in place.
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jake 3:23AM (3/13/2009)
Being able to charge at a certain voltage means it can also charge at a lower voltages so it should work with those voltages also. It's like those chargers that you get with a laptop that can charge 240-100V.
BlackbirdHighway 8:16AM (3/13/2009)
The Roadster already works at both 120 and 240. I don't think they are taking that away, just adding 440 as well.
We'll know for sure after the 26th.
Chris M 4:25PM (3/14/2009)
Tesla licensed the "reductive charging" system from AC Propulsion, it uses the motor inverter circuitry to regulate charging, thus reducing parts count and cost. It also can work with a wide range of input voltages, even high voltage DC, and can even be adapted to send standard AC voltage out if needed.
I'm betting they've just adapted the charging system to run on any voltage from 90 to 450 volts, and whatever amperage is supplied.
440 volts x 70 amps = 30Kw, enough to give a full charge in just over 1.6 hours, 100 miles in less than an hour.
GoodCheer 2:40PM (3/13/2009)
They are almost certainly using the AeroVironment fast charging DC system. The idea here is that you can do inter-city or inter-state trips, just stop for 15 minutes 200 miles into your trip are refill the battery.
These would absolutely NOT be the chargers you would have in your garage. For that a standard household 240V - 30Amp plug (like an electric stove, clothes dryer etc) would be more than enough, delivering 52 kWh in 7 hours... charging at ~30 miles range per hour. At 30 m(range)ph you can charge up at home, run around town / commute til the cows come home are never have a problem .
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H4MM3R 4:37PM (3/13/2009)
I hope they offer a 3 phase verison.
277/480 volt, 400 amp, 4 wire, WYE could produce 300 KWh.
It only take minutes to charge.
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