Record attendance at NHA Hydrogen Conference and Expo
Columbia, South Carolina was the site for the Nationan Hydrogen Association Conference and Hydrogen Expo recently. Even though there is a noticeable shift away from hydrogen, expo organizers say the conference was a success because over 700 registered attendees and more than 2,000 visitors came to the show, about twice as many as in previous years. Around 80 exhibitors displayed all kinds of hydrogen-powered devices, from cameras to forklifts and, of course, cars. Models from GM, Honda, Daimler and Hyundai were available for test drives and a Proterra hydrogen bus was also available, as well as hydrogen-powered Segways. Auto industry representatives present at the event reiterated their efforts in pursuing hydrogen development along with other alternative fuel sources. The exhibition also featured The Element One hydrogen race kart, designed and built by a Formula Zero team from Lawrence Technological University.[Source: NHA]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tohe 7:33PM (4/14/2009)
I wonder if Gorr cloned himself. Oh my.
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Lad 9:35PM (4/14/2009)
One need not tune in the comedy channel..just read the musings of one named Gorr.
See http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax for the other story on H2.
Noz 2:00AM (4/15/2009)
Yeah the other and only other story you have Carney...
gorr 7:50PM (4/14/2009)
Why nobody in this subsidized gang is producing compressed gazeous hydrogen to put in a tank feeding their numerous hydrogen consuming gadgets ?? It's because their mandate is to kill hydrogen technology. That's why no one of their product is for sale to a normal paying consumer. I said and i repeat that the natural ressources cartel(exxon) is controling, politics and banks and that you are yourself a natural ressource without rights. Corruption is the name of the game and this planet is heading to his sixth destruction and toyota is one of the stupidest compagny in the world leaded by zombies. Toyota refused to put on the market their car that clean the air while moving from new-york to los-angeles.
Exxon started many research program under the goverment mask , just to seek hydrogen technology, because they know it work good without pollution and costs, then when something works, then they bury the invention and the inventors.
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Element One 2:21AM (4/15/2009)
Element One Formula Zero team Media coverage at NHA Conference and more:
The State Newspaper Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTGFfOvWyPo&feature=channel_page
NBC News: http://www.wistv.com/global/category.asp?c=151146&clipId=3603546&topVideoCatNo+=3851&topVideoCatNoB=67010&topVideoCatNoC=125643&topVideoCatNoD=87934&to+pVid
Popular Science Magazine: http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=65320606189&h=ClbjK&u=J4TWS
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Chris 4:11PM (4/15/2009)
Hydrogen is a hoax. We need to spend take all the money spent on hydrogen and redirect it towards--
1. Zero interest loans for new advanced battery factories built in the USA
2. The $7,500 PHEV/BEV tax credit (make it available at the time of sale)
3. Upgrades to the Electric grid
4. Research on making existing chemistries cheaper to mass produce.
5. Research on emerging chemistry (battery and ultracap)
6. No interest loans, refunds, and high feed in tarrifs for carbon-free decentralized power
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bob 9:57PM (4/15/2009)
Chris,
Your comment is a hoax. We need to take all the time and energy spent
on bashing hydrogen and redirect it towards--
1. Un-brainwashing all the anti-hydrogen luddite douche-bags in the USA!
2. Realizing that hydrogen is easy and cheap to make, and that it can't be monopolized by the oil companies.
3. Building electrolyzers and hydrogen stations.
4. Learning how well hydrogen can do, compared to batteries at replacing gasoline.
5. Realizing the fact that a very small percentage of the population are actually willing and able to deal with the downsides of an PHEV/BEV (nowhere to charge if you live in an apartment)
4. Research on making it cheaper to mass produce.
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Chris M 5:56PM (4/16/2009)
Bob,
1. You're not going to "un-brainwash" anyone by insulting them. Perhaps you could try dazzling them with the facts - except the facts are what converted me from a "H2 hopeful" to one of those dreaded "anti-hydrogen luddites".
2. H2 may be "easy to make" but it isn't cheap. Currently, the cheapest method is by steam reforming natural gas or coal, with a retail price from $8 to $10 per Kg. Even with the higher efficiency of fuel cells, that still means the per-mile fuel cost is still higher than gasoline. Production by electrolysis is more expensive, and using renewable sources such as wind and solar drive the costs even higer. Ironically, using that electricity for plug-in vehicles instead would use only 1/3 as much electricity and have a per-mile "fuel" cost far less than H2 or gasoline. Driving electric will always be cheaper than driving on H2. While the oil companies can't "monopolize" H2 production, they are currently the biggest H2 producers, and they have the cheapest sources, and they certainly plan to dominate and control the "H2 economy". It is no accident that all the major oil companies are major H2 supporters and dominate most H2 promotional groups.
3. It is far far cheaper to install EV recharging outlets instead of H2 refueling stations, which means we could have a lot more of them, in more locations. EV recharging outlets can be installed anywhere convenient, such as in parking lots for roadside diners and shopping malls and office buildings, unlike H2 refueling stations which require special dedicated facilities. The lower cost of installation and maintenance also means lower prices for EV "fuel".
4. While H2 certainly burns cleaner than gasoline and can be produced locally, it is in every other aspect inferior. Storage is a major problem due to the bulky "lighter-than-air" nature of H2, requiring either expensive ultra-high pressure carbon fiber tanks, or expensive cryogenic dewars, or expensive, heavy and slow refilling metal hydrides. The cost of H2 storage exceeds the cost of LiIon batteries. While it is possible to fuel an IC engine with H2, the high cost and very short drving range make it impractical. Automotive H2 fuel cells are extravagantly expensive, costing nearly a half million dollars, thanks to the platinum required. No, a far better way to "replace gasoline" is with plug-ins and biofuels.
5. It would be annoying for an apartment dweller to have to travel to the nearest shopping center to recharge their EV, but it would be even more annoying for said apartment dweller to have to drive clear across town to the nearest H2 station - remember, EV charging outlets will be cheaper thus far more common. Also, when "plug-ins" get popular, many parking lot owners will add EV charging for the extra revenue, as will apartment landlords with on-site parking, and some municipalities will even add EV charging outlets to their parking meters! Oh, and of course all those suburbanites will simply charge up at home, and won't want to bother making special H2 refueling trips.
H2 has been known for almost 2 centuries, and 40 years of H2 fuel cell cars research has brought H2 fuel cell car prices down from $2 million to a mere half million dollars! Go ahead and research H2 for the knowledge we can gain, but please don't rely on it to solve our transportation fuel problems.
gorr 5:50PM (4/16/2009)
Hydrogen can be made for almost free with the simplest of small portative or installed machines (electrolyzers), so it's easy to see that these folks at the NHA are just protected subsidizeds folks like chris m that try to discover what energy power a corpse ??? like hitler did with his superiority and inferiority complex in his only brain that nobody understand. So barack on another level is doing is own researchs on the human genome and abortion because he want to start and stop a corpse of his/their creation ??? I told you that water energy is simple and it's not because robots powered by water batteries 85 billions years ago eradicated all biology on this p^lanet that we have to do the same game. Corpses in power are now human corpses and the souls innabiting them are eternal and unfortunatelly under the control of jesus because souls here are so criminal and depressed that they even naysaid the basic of life itself by accepting low level of energy for themself and others. Go cry alone but don't naysay my buying bids here in this site. If a folks searching for a sale can make my car between 10000$- 15000% then all this energy-financing-budjet-technology-laws crisis will be finnish because i ordered this green car since the beginning of the bible more then 3000 years ago and the green car belong to me. I don't care if you buy a big golf carts with 20 000$ of battery and you drive 120 miles on it at 50 mph max. Me im heading for a sport car of 200-300 h.p with unlimited range and no fuel cost.
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Chris M 6:08PM (4/16/2009)
Speaking of "only brain that nobody understand", your posts just keep getting more and more incomprehensible. Using bad grammar and adding irrelevant bits that sound like an insane cult doesn't help any.
Sorry, Gorr, but your rants are getting you nowhere as far as getting your water powered dream car.
bob 5:45PM (4/17/2009)
Chris M,
Open up your mind, dude, and quit picking on Gorr, he can't help it.....
Here is an excerpt from a news article which came out today, and the link is below. Please read and ponder......
...."large quantities of hydrogen are already produced as a byproduct of the upstate chlor-alkali industry, which uses hydropower from Niagara Falls."
........
"There is an abundance of hydrogen in the New York state area -- enough for 3 million fuel cell vehicles is already produced at the facilities from renewable hydroelectric right here in Buffalo,"
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D97KEBJ80.htm
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Chris M 2:46AM (4/18/2009)
Your link lead to a "file not found", apparently the article has already been deleted.
No matter, I know what you are referring to, the production of sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide and chlorine gas from electrolysis of salt water, with hydrogen as a "byproduct". Sorry, but that supply is limited because the production of chlorine bleach and lye is also limited, it isn't enough even for current H2 uses, let alone have any left over for our transportation systems. The oil companies produce far greater quantities of H2 for their own use in refineries.
Now, if we diverted all that Niagra power to making H2, it could indeed fuel a lot of vehicles - but what about all those devices that need that electricity? Should our northeast cities go dark and our computers shut down and our freezers thaw out just so we can power H2 cars?
Or we could use just 1/3 as much to power plug-ins instead. The combination of electrolysis, compression for storage, and fuel cells is only 23% efficient at storing electrical energy, but charger and battery together is 85% efficient. EVs can go 3x further than the equivalent H2FC vehicle for the same amount of electricity. And if that electricity comes from renewable sources, well then using 1/3 as much means more clean renewable electricity available to displace fossil fuel use.
bob 9:24PM (4/18/2009)
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D97KF5M00.htm
bob 6:02PM (4/17/2009)
Chris M:
May I suggest some further reading concerning hydrogen news, and those idiot scientists at NASA?
Here's the link: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/news/pressrel/2009/09-014_hydro_fuel_station.html
Those guys are soooooo stupid, aren't they? You should let them know of your "expertise" on these matters, and tell them it's all just a waste of time......
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Chris M 3:21AM (4/18/2009)
No, bob, they aren't "idiots", just bedazzled by their own technological prowess, and heedless of cost, efficiency, or practicality. The cost was rather high ($620,000 according to the article) and the result was just enough H2 to power one transit bus. Ironically, with that kind of money they could have constructed a solar power farm big enough to power an entire fleet of plug-in busses - with electricity left over. Remember that charger & batteries is 3x more efficient than electrolyzer/compressor/fuel cell, thus the same "sun and wind" sources used to power 1 H2 FC bus could power 3 plug-in busses.
Those NASA guys won't pay much attention to little old me, but they might listen to an expert like Ulf Bossel who is making a presentation to the upcoming European Fuel Cell Forum. You can read one of his presentations here:
http://www.efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf
You'd like Noz, a NASA worker that occasionally posts here and who thinks H2 is the future, we've had a few lively and entertaining discussions.
PatrickS 4:32PM (4/22/2009)
Sorry Chris M, all of your facts don't match up. And Ulf Bossel does not know what he's talking about. The entire hydrogen industry has refuted his erroneous claims.
Here's a look at how 15 different alternative fuels would play out over the next couple decades. You can see quite clearly now why we need a portfolio of alternatives. Hydrogen can do much good as can some of the other alternatives.
http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/evolution.asp
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