REPORT: Toyota to give hybrid technology to GM?
According to a report in Japan's Daily Yomiuri newspaper, Toyota is willing to give General Motors access to its hybrid technology, free of charge. Why in the world would they do that, you ask? Apparently, Toyota doesn't want to see the crucial American market weaken any further and would benefit from the exchange by having its Hybrid Synergy Drive become the standard hybrid technology all over the world.
It's also believed that this gesture could help smooth over tensions between Americans and Japan as the U.S. automakers have been hit harder in the economic crisis. Further, the report suggests that Toyota believes GM has fallen too far behind on hybrid technology after spending the past few years working feverishly on hydrogen fuel cells.
So, is there any truth to this rumor? Don't bet on it. General Motors has already developed multiple hybrid powertrain technologies, including the sophisticated 2-Mode system that was jointly designed with Daimler, BMW and Chrysler. Plus, as you're surely aware by now, GM has put all of its eggs in the Voltec range-extended electric vehicle basket and believes this is the best way moving to power its vehicles in the short term.
[Source: Daily Yomiuri via GM-Volt.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Killroy 10:06AM (5/26/2009)
BS. Hybrid technology is not that difficult. Defense companies are using series hybrid technology in combat vehicles.
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downtoearth 12:36PM (5/26/2009)
Killroy:
> BS. Hybrid technology is not that difficult. Defense
> companies are using series hybrid technology in
> combat vehicles.
So is every diesel locomotive maker. The reason though is to get rid of huge gearsets capable of transferring high torques and doing the shifting job. It's more convenient to handle it with a generator-motor pair.
Jason 8:49AM (5/26/2009)
Very strange idea, this. It wouldn't benefit Toyota, it wouldn't benefit GM, and it wouldn't benefit the consumer. Sounds like a plan!
I won't believe this until I see 'powered by Prius' badges plastered to GM vehicles.
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Matt 9:27AM (5/26/2009)
Daily Yomiuri = tabloid
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jharlan 9:45AM (5/26/2009)
I really hope GM is right, and their technology is promising, but it is just in concept stage. You cannot compete on the showroom floor with a "concept".
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Throwback 10:14AM (5/26/2009)
This is the second time this rumor has popped up. There is no incentive for Toyota to "give" away technology that gives them a competitive advantage. Try explaining to your shareholders why you would give away hybrid technology when you have bet the company on it. I'm sure that will go over well.
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Lad 10:29AM (5/26/2009)
GM engineers are not dumb (too bad they haven't been running the company instead of the bean counters); Serial Hybrid technology offers an easy path to full battery EVs...all you need do is lose the genset and doctor up the controls. On the other hand the Parallel Hybrid cars are an integration of the ICE and battery power through the transmission and control electronics; they are in essence an ICE with electric boost while the GM design is a BEV with an extender genset.
I like the GM design better.
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Richard 10:39AM (5/26/2009)
Dean Camen (inventor of hundreds of medical devises as well as the Segway) also likes GM's approach better. Given that Mr. Camen is one of the best inventors in the world, I think that is a good endorsement.
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Richard 10:41AM (5/26/2009)
oops, Kamen, not Camen.
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unni 10:48AM (5/26/2009)
GM good on hydrogen fuel ? who said this ? They are not leader ,again Toyota and Honda are leaders. don't trust me, look at statistics
http://www.hydrogenroadtour.com/ they have Participants. Look at the profiles
Toyota FCHV gives takes ~ 6 kg hydrogen and gives 491 miles
Equinox Fuel Cell takes 4.2kg hydrogen and gives 150 miles
now Honda: 5000 psi , 3.9 ltr gives 240 miles (above 2 are 10,000 psi )
Who is a leader in converting hydrogen to effective miles ?
Now on Hybrid :
2 mode vs HSD - 2 mode is designed for bus and they are not successful in fitting it in cars. It may be technically great but practically on cars ?
HSD on other side came small and now upscaled on SUVs properly.
Now GM says volt : its not proved, can by 2 insights for the price of volt. GM has to understand the technology need tor each mass to make profit. If they designed 2 mode in 97 , why still they technology is not profitable and scalable for a malibu or a traverse ?
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Throwback 11:42AM (5/26/2009)
Now on Hybrid :
"2 mode vs HSD - 2 mode is designed for bus and they are not successful in fitting it in cars. It may be technically great but practically on cars ?"
How excatly do you know this system can't be used on cars? BMW, Mercedes and GM apparently think otherwise. All 3 companies will have dual modes in production by next year.
HSD has the advantage of having a head start and more real world mileage, but to suggest the dual mode is inferior is silly. The fact you can get a Tahoe to eaqual a Camry in City driving is impressive.
Matt 11:57AM (5/26/2009)
Unni, look up "Conjunction Junction" and pay close attention.
As for the technical argument you make, well, it's weak at best. GM has excellent hybrid systems in place, they just took the logical approach and focused on their high margin vehicles first instead of the smaller ones. GM needed to improve the fuel economy of their bread 'n butter, trucks and SUV's, so they kept the lead in that market. Honestly, nobody can touch the Sierra or Yukon Hybrid's fuel economy, and the new Escalade Hybrid brings the tech to their luxury brand. Sure, they need a fuel efficient car, but that has never been a real money maker for them, so it's not surprising they wanted to put that off for last. Not only that, but they really needed a new small car platform to make it a hit (the Volt is based on the new Cruze).
If you want really interesting numbers, look at the fuel economy of the Corvette. The EPA puts the 2009 model at 26 mpg highway, but real world (and 2008 EPA testing on the same engine/chassis) average 28 mpg highway. I dare you to try and find a 430 hp V8 sports car with that kind of efficiency (hint: it's the only one).
My point is this; while GM has a definite need to get the Volt out to market, and for it to be a hit, generally speaking motors and drive trains have not been GM's weak spot. Their real weakness is their inability to shift quickly with the market. They should have made a decent small car platform long ago, but they chose not to. They also should have never let the UAW take over their business, but they did. Now they pay their workers too much to make cars that people don't want. They are, however, turning around, and the new 2010 Equinox is expected to get better than 30 mpg without a hybrid power train. With that and the Cruze in addition to the decent sales of the Malibu and their trucks, GM should be fine. What's more, they're made in America, something you clearly do not care for.
Chris M 7:09PM (5/26/2009)
Another factor is that Toyota started selling the Prius in Japan in 1997, and their early patents are older than that, so the initial patents are about to expire, anyway. So, a goodwill gesture might not be a bad idea, after all.
Both the GM Dual Mode and Toyota Hybrid designs replace the regular transmission, but one big advantage the Toyota hybrid design has over the GM Dual Mode is simplicity, it has far fewer moving parts and is less expensive to build. That makes the Toyota design a much better choice for less expensive vehicles.
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Snoopy 10:22PM (5/27/2009)
If there was any truth to it, it would be absolutely stupid for Toyota. As it is, GM screwed them on NiMH battery technology (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDRBRuvct54 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waqep7f59ho). Why would they do this?
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