Report: Honda fast-tracking updates to improve Insight
2010 Honda Insight EX - Click above for high-res image gallery
It looks like Honda may be responding quickly to some of the early criticism of its new Insight hybrid. Many recent reviews of the Insight have been particularly harsh, especially in comparison to the new Prius. While the Insight does manage to get excellent fuel economy, it can't really compete with the Toyota. In spite of Honda's claims that the insight is not a direct competitor to the Prius, AutoCar claims Honda engineers are working hard to get closer to the mileage leader. It's not clear how close they can get without some significant changes to the powertrain, and that's something that could take a while.
While Toyota clearly has bragging rights in terms of efficiency, one of the primary criticisms of the Honda has been its ride and handling. The Insight works well enough on smooth roads, but is far less well behaved over rougher pavement. Changes to the suspension could be accomplished pretty quickly and even rolled out as a running change.
Gallery: Review: 2010 Honda Insight EX
Photos Copyright ©2009 Sam Abuelsamid / Weblogs, Inc.
[Source: AutoCar]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
oollyoumn 9:44AM (7/22/2009)
Honda is correct that the Insight is not a direct competitor to the Prius. I had originally hoped to get the Insight, but once the technical detail were released it became abundantly clear that the Insight did not compete at all. For the relatively small price increase the Prius is a much larger car with much more/better technology. If you want drum rear breaks, engine belts, no ability to move on electric alone, less air bags, etc. and to be cramped, there may be a compelling reason to save a few dollars, but find it difficult seeing anyone make that choice unless they are primarily emotional purchasers.
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oobflyer 9:49AM (7/22/2009)
I test-drove the Insight before buying the new Prius. Honda didn't design the Insight to take advantage of the electric motor like Toyota did - that's why I decided on the Prius. Specifically, the Prius accelerates from a stop using the electric motor only, then the gas engine turns on, but when you are at a stop in the Insight the gas engine turns on as soon as you take your foot off of the brake, so that the gas engine is used for initial acceleration. Also, if you have the A/C on, and come to a stop, the Prius turns the gas engine off and runs the A/C on batteries, while the Insight keeps the gas engine going to run the A/C. (I test-drove 2 different Insights because I thought maybe there was something wrong with the first one!)
Anyway- this explains why the Prius gets better mileage, despite being larger and heavier.
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why not the LS2LS7? 11:26AM (7/22/2009)
The Insight is not a two-mode hybrid. It never has been. Any time the car is moving, the ICE is spinning.
MIke!!ekiM 10:41AM (7/22/2009)
What surprises me, is Honda de-contenting ride and handling. If anything you could always expect Honda's to have excellent ride and handling characteristics. What is happening to Honda?
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Nozferat 12:41PM (7/22/2009)
Why are you surprised? When people would rather see wasteful V8s and V6s and turbo 4s in hot cars, why do you expect car manufacturers to actually design hybrids and EVs that look good and drive well?
They're giving what the people want...and what people usually want sucks.
guyledouche 11:05AM (7/22/2009)
I think it was a rush job plain and simple. Honda saw the huge market brewing in this segment and saw the gigantic leaps that the prius was making and impressive sales figures and wanted to get a piece of the action. Unfortunately I think they jumped the gun and released an unrefined product, which is definitely not a typical characteristic of Honda. I think timing, politics, and the economy are all to blame on this one. I also think that their goal to make it the cheaper of the two hybrids sacrificed a lot of quality and innovation in the powertrain. I rode in my neighbors insight about two weeks ago and I couldn't beleive how shitty the ride was. It did not feel like a Honda at all. He also commented on it and is regretting his purchase now. I am really surprised, above all else, that they dropped the ball on somehting as simple and basic as decent suspension. I think they really need to rethink their target market. Instead of making the cheapest prius competitor, they should make it a flag ship model and leave models like the Fit hybrid for the "cheapest hybrid" category. Most of the people who are in the market for a Prius or Insight are not exactly looking for an econobox and tend to have a decent bank roll behind them. They dont mind spending 2 or 3 grand more for a much more refined automobile. The people who can only afford a 15K car will just continue to buy Kia's and Hyundais until they big boys realease cheaper compact hybrids.
Hopefully the next rendition will be much better now that they have realized all of the mistakes they made.
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stevejust 5:08PM (7/22/2009)
Like they learned anything from the original Insight?
Like they learned anything from the Honda Accord Hybrid?
I feel bad for poor Honda. I have a Honda motorcycle and a Honda Civic Hybrid, which is great for subruban driving but gets murdered by Hybrid Synergy Drive in city driving.
Honda lost me as a customer -- I'm on a waitlist for a 2010 Prius (and the waitlist for the 2010 Fisker Karma, too, but after Fisker sort of disappointed me by not showing up for the Concours d'Elegance in Beverly Hills with any Karmas, I'm not holding my breath on that one. Of course, maybe they're too busy proofing the car for stupid events like that.)
win39 11:18AM (7/22/2009)
Car and Driver about the Prius:
Wallowy handling, numb steering, brake pedal connected to mush. Nearly impossible to find neutral with the electric switch used to change gears.
Car and Driver about the Insight:
The Insight wins this comparo because it’s more a car than a cocoon-like transport module. Its cloth seats are comfortable, with more lateral support than the Prius’s. The HVAC controls are integrated into one huge rotary knob with easy-to-read icons. There’s a real tach. Offering appropriate heft and satisfactory accuracy, the steering feels connected to actual wheels. The brake pedal is firmer and less quirky by a factor of, oh, five. Body motions are few, the suspension is tight and difficult to disrupt, and someone has even dialed in a touch of lift-throttle oversteer to help rotate that cliff of a tail. ...The Insight represents a lot of engineering bang for the buck, and the majority of its dynamics are more satisfying than the Prius’s.
They mention the unpredictable auto stop. That will probably be fixed. Let's hope they do not "fix" the suspension to please the princess and the pea types who get hysterical if they detect a sensation in their lurching cloudmobile.
The problem, it seems to me, is that Honda was not able to get the price of the Insight down enough. It really is too close to the stripper Prius that Toyota created as an afterthought to compete with Honda. The other problem is that the Prius tests well at EPA and that is what people see on the window sticker, but when you look at the mileage that the actual drivers get on the same site currently the 10mpg difference shrinks to three reflecting the earlier small difference between the Civic Hybrid and the earlier Prius.
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guyledouche 12:24PM (7/22/2009)
If you rely on Car and Driver for your information instead of actually getting behind the wheel yourself, your opinion is completely null and void. Shut up, stop quoting a bunch of fat idiots that get paid to say what they say and go drive both vehicles YOURSELF.
Your insights (No pun intended) will likely be much different once you have done so.
Mike!!ekiM 3:25PM (7/22/2009)
I just wonder if "Car and Driver" didn't get the memo wrong. The "propaganda machine" say's You're supposed to Bash the Insight, and Love the Prius. What if they just got mixed up?
But, yes, you can't trust these guys, you've got to drive the thing yourself. I've found that there was a real love for a set of cars, that when I drove them, they turned out to be less then satisfactory, and other's that they rated low, I thought were great.
1) The Auto Magazine Industry used to tell us how great FWD was. Then I bought a Probe GT, for example, and found out about "Torque Steer", esp. during acceleration and high speed cornering, was a serious problem. They never mentioned it.
2) Again FWD. VW V6's, they loved, they actually drive like 95% of the car's weight is in front of the front wheels, not confidence inspiring handling.
3) They hated the Ford Mercury XR4Ti. The car had a silky ride, with exceptional handling and very strong brakes. It also had a nice little turbo-charged four that was fun to give it some gas and feel the rush of power. But, no, you couldn't STOMP on the accelerator and "pretend" it was a V8. Or was it an Oil Industry Payoff, to stop the Popularity of Turbo's in the 80's.
You've got to remember, these guys would rather have us all drive 400 HP Mustangs. They actually think such a GROSSLY Overpowered Car is a "Good Idea", as if we all lived next to Watkins Glen. Even today, they drool over cars that you simply can't use in normal traffic.
JDM Life 2:20AM (7/27/2009)
Everything you just said was stupid and not based in nothing but "opinions" .
I read the total opposite of everything you just said from other sources.
Pruis FTW. Period. Honda Failed. Deal with it.
locoyocal 11:42AM (7/22/2009)
i think honda didn't realize that the prius was going to be in the same price range, therefore didn't build a car to compete.
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Dave 6:03PM (7/22/2009)
How could they *not* expect the Prius to only be a couple grand more and basically the same for similarly optioned vehicles?
Toyota's been selling the Prius for basically the same price now for about 10 years, adding features and reducing fuel consumption along the way.
Lorena Palin 11:53AM (7/22/2009)
only 3 grand difference? Jesus...
See, I'd expect the insight to have a good ride and handling, because I have never ridden or driven a honda that didn't.
Are they just saying that it's too rough/tight? Because some people (like myself) prefer tight suspension.
Even so...they need to drop the price. I had been under the impression that the new prius started at 25-28 grand, I was going to come on here and yell at everone saying "8 grand is not only a little pit more!" but...I decided to check the prices, and it is only 3 grand more...thats just stupid.
Note, I wouldn't buy the prius for the extra milage, the 3 grand difference makes the real world milage gap irrelevent. I'd buy it because from everything I here it's more car, better built, roomier, etc.
Now as far as the drivetrain goes, I think the setup that honda has is good for the sake of simplicity. Simplicity is always nice, and that system is perfect for adding to any regular gasoline engine.
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9394 4:57AM (7/23/2009)
Toyota holds key patents in hybrid designs, and Honda doesn't want to pay Toyota royalties. The Insight is as best as they can do without paying Toyota anything.
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jonjon72 10:48AM (7/31/2009)
Then Honda needs to get over it. Ford is doing a much better job then. The Fusion Hybrid is a great piece of work. Ford seems to be the bigger challenge in term of Hybrid technology to Toyota than Honda right now.
JDM Life 2:18AM (7/27/2009)
Pruis FTW.
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monica 1:41AM (7/30/2009)
was able to buy ZNN at $2. hype or not, buy low - sell high, anyone?
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Chet 11:15AM (7/31/2009)
The market for the Insight is "people who are willing to pay a premium for a hybrid but can't afford a Prius." However, in a dumped economy with gas still under $3/gal, if you can't afford a Prius, you're probably not comfortable paying a premium for a hybrid... or buying a new car at all, for that matter.
A hybrid is still an aspirational purchase, and I think most people are either going to buy the real thing or wait until they can.
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