Kia offering 6-month fuel cell test drives in Korea
Kia Borrego FCEV - click above for high-res image gallery
Kia is getting ready to conduct its own smaller scale version of Project Driveway, the GM fuel cell vehicle field test. The South Korean automaker will be giving five drivers the opportunity to drive a fuel cell-powered version of the Borrego (sold as the Mohave in its home market) FCEV. Interested testers can fill out an application at Kia's domestic market website www.kia.co.kr between now and Halloween for a chance at a six-month test. To be eligible, you have to live in the vicinity of Seoul and be over 20 years old. A valid license is, of course, also a must. The winners will be announced November 12. Kia and parent company Hyundai have been testing fuel cell powertrains in a number of different platforms, including the Tucson and Santa Fe, for several years. Hyundai-Kia are on the third generation of their own in-house developed stack and have announced that they plan to launch series production of fuel cell vehicles within the next three years.
Gallery: Kia Borrego FCEV
[Source: Kia]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Serge 12:09PM (10/06/2009)
Would be interesting if Kia worked with Samsung, who recently unveiled a DMFC for the military market, to scale up their fuel cell to range extender size.
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letstakeawalk 5:11PM (10/06/2009)
Just three years away... Toyota is saying 2015, and GM is so close with the fuel cell Equinox. Oh, let's not forget Mercedes and Honda.
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Serge 6:04PM (10/06/2009)
I've heard that somewhere before, LOL:
From SAE's "Fuel Cells Start to Look Real" article published in March of 2001 http://www.aerospaceengineeringmagazine.sae.org/automag/features/fuelcells/index.htm
"Toyota has set 2003 as its target for market introduction of fuel-cell vehicles."
"Ford's Focus FCV will serve as the base for its first production fuel-cell vehicle, scheduled to go on sale by 2004"
"Larry Burns, GM Vice President for Research and Development, said that GM and ExxonMobil have developed a better way to extract hydrogen from gasoline. 'Our joint progress on gasoline processor technology means that clean, efficient fuel-cell-electric vehicles could be in consumers' garages by the end of the decade,' he said"
"While Honda's management does not expect fuel-cell vehicles to come into the mainstream for 10 to 20 years, the Japanese automaker remains committed to commercializing its first unit in 2003."
"In 2002, DaimlerChrysler will deliver the first city buses with fuel cells, followed in 2004 by the first passenger cars,"
"Kaneko expects Nissan to introduce a 'market research vehicle' in the 2003-05 time frame, pending development of a fueling infrastructure."
xyz 9:20PM (10/06/2009)
Yeah...2015! Can't wait, Greg...ahem...letstakeawalk.
letstakeawalk 9:48AM (10/07/2009)
xyz
I assure you, I am not Greg Blencoe. Feel free to go back and read my comments from the same period in which he was actively posting.
Gorthe 6:31PM (10/06/2009)
It's never going to happen, because it doesn't make sense at all!!
The well-to-wheel efficiency is around 24% which is comparable to a conventional petrol engine. An efficient diesel car has better efficiency already and electric cars are three times more efficient than an FC car if you use renewable sources.
FC car:
Hydrogen generation: ~70%
Transport: 95%
Compression: 76%
Fuel cell: 54%
Electric drive (yes it is an electric car): 89%
Overall efficiency=24%
Electric:
Power lines: 92%
Battery charger: 89%
LI-ion batteries:94%
Electric drive: 89%
Overall efficiency=69%
Fuel cells have been around for more than 50 years, yet no break real through.
"In 1959, a team led by Harry Ihrig built a 15 kW fuel cell tractor for Allis-Chalmers which was demonstrated across the US at state fairs."
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jtak 1:26AM (10/07/2009)
"Fuel cells have been around for more than 50 years, yet no break real through."
The concept of "fuel cells" producing electricity in different applications has been around for a long time. However, development of fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) actually began around 1995 - not a long time ago. Since then substantial progress has been made:
- cost per kW has dropped from around $1,400/kW to $70/kW.
- size of most automaker's fuel cell stack has been reduced by 40%
- fuel efficiency has increased by 30%
- range has increased by more than 150%
- cold start ability has been improved to below -20C
Work on the first battery electric vehicles (BEVs) started 100 years ago, but recent work stated in the 1960s. As a result we will finally see small BEVs commercially released shortly. We neeed them and I'm very much looking forward to them.
Both BEVs and FCEVs have made substantial technical progress and in the end they will each will address different segments of the electric vehicle market. All is want is to see as many electric vehicles in all market segments as possible. Good luck to both.
Many attempts to produce practical electric vehicles occurred during the years from 1960 to the present.
Serge 1:58PM (10/07/2009)
Jtak, when discussing technology improvements it is important to be cognizant of "technology generations". BEVs from the 60s moved from lead acid to nickel-metal hydride to assorted lithium-ion chemistries. So the third generation of technology (which appeared in late 90s) has finally breached into commercialization zone. Some will argue that this was possible with 2nd gen technology, but the reality is that currently available and upcoming xEVs are all based on some variant of lithium-ion chemistry. Hydrogen fuel cell (PEM) development, on the other hand, has started in the 60s with space programs and is still the basis for major hydrogen fuel cell development efforts today. Whether PEM fuel cells are able to reach commercialization stage in what in essence is a 1st generation technology (that nevertheless receieved extensive development) remains to be seen. For one thing the cost reductions (a very important factor in this regard) are just projections; they are not real. Prices for commercially available hydrogen fuels cells today (from Ballard, the market leader are in the range of 4 to 6 thousand dollars per kW. My bet is that fuel cells may have a shot with 2nd generation technology, like DMFCs.
tiborvoros 6:35AM (10/07/2009)
First of all, fuel cell cars are electric cars, because they use H2 to generate electricity with fuel cells. In other words, hydrogen is just an energy carrier nothing else. You still have to generate, compress, transport, distribute and convert Hydrogen, there is no way around it. It is a nice concept, but if you worry about climate change or simply the cost, it is not an optimal solution.
It is true that electric vehicles were used before even the petrol cars, but the problem is the energy density of the available battery technologies. You simply cannot use lead-acid batteries in cars, because they are way too heavy. We are talking about 20-30 kg/kW or about a tonne per 100km (60 miles).
Lithium-ion, commercialised by sony in 1991, had and still has the best energy density.
Power hungry portable devices such as cellular phones and laptops demanded light and compact rechargeable batteries, therefore many players invested heavily in li-ion technologies.
Back then (around 1995) batteries were way too heavy and/or expensive for reasonable automotive use. However they have improved significantly and their prices have dropped.
These days it almost make sense to switch to battery/electric, because they are way much more efficient than any other drivetrain. The only problem is cost!
Tesla addressed the problem by creating an amazing (and expensive) niche car.
They basically use the same cylindrical cells what laptop manufacturers use.
It's still very expensive, but at least it is fast, has the range and look cool.
There will be a point when batteries are cheap enough to seriously challenge petrol cars in terms of price and range. It looks like it will happen soon, maybe in the next 3-5 years. We have already one electric car mass produced (Tesla) but other will follow such as Nissan leaf, Mitsubishi, Chevy Volt, Renault, VW, Audi, Smart etc.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32842175/ns/business-autos/
I'm just sad that so much money, time and talent was wasted on fuel cells.
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letstakeawalk 9:52AM (10/07/2009)
The pursuit of knowledge is never a waste.
jtak 12:11PM (10/07/2009)
ABG is a great forum for sharing and expressing ideas and opinions. Thanks for sharing yours. I'll just politely disagree with your negative view on the fuel cell electric vehicles. I'll instead based my optimism on the commitment to FCEVs that Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford, Daimler (Mercedes), Volkswagen, Hyundai and Suzuki are showing. I'm assuming they are investing millions because the understand the current state of FCEV and hydrogen refueling technology better than anyone. And they have identified how they will take cost reduction and performance to the next level.
Dave 12:20PM (10/07/2009)
"These days it almost make sense to switch to battery/electric, because they are way much more efficient than any other drivetrain. The only problem is cost!"
Repeat the following 1000 times until you get it:
Cost = Energy
Cost = Energy
Cost = Energy
Cost = Energy
Cost = Energy
The battery pack in the Tesla is expensive because it requires energy to mine, transport, process, and manufacture its components. Just like it requires energy to manufacture hydrogen.
The difference is that you don't have to haul around thousands of pounds of batteries in an FCV
The Tesla is a small, aerodynamic car equipped with low rolling resistance tires with a modest range whose battery pack weighs nearly 1000 lbs. A midsize car operating in a cold climate with an acceptable range (~250 miles) will require easily three times the battery capacity to be marketable.
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Dave 12:33PM (10/07/2009)
There seem to be a whole lot of people on this forum who don't understand mass production.
They don't understand that the total cost of raw materials to manufacture an FCV are far far less than the raw materials required to manufacture a BEV. And that this is the only limiting factor.
I want to suggest this to those who think fuel cells will always be expensive:
Get a hood ornament (for which GM or Ford or whoever paid about $.10) out of the junkyard. Bring it to a machine shop and ask them how much they will charge you to make one, including chrome plating. When they reply "$100" maybe you will understand why prototypes and low volume production runs are so expensive.
Much of the R&D money spent on fuel cells has been used to develop cheap mass production processes to replace expensive small run machining processes.
Dave 1:00PM (10/07/2009)
"The difference is that you don't have to haul around thousands of pounds of batteries in an FCV "
In fact:
A midsize CUV such as the fuel cell Equinox would consume ~8800 lbs of hydrogen over a 200,000 mile lifetime assuming 50 miles per kg. (Toyota claims 68 miles per kg for the highlander but I suspect that is akin to hypermiling)
Meanwhile, a BEV Equinox would require at least 3000 lbs of batteries in order to be marketable in all climates.
Which do you suppose costs more to manufacture?
Serge 2:48PM (10/07/2009)
Dave, you should repeat your own mantra.
Model S will be comparable (actually bigger) in size than HFC Equinox and its 300 mile pack will not weigh 3,000 lbs; I can guarantee you that much. With pack that large it will probably retail for $75,000. And that is an unsubsidized price. At ~ 4 miles per kWh, total electricity costs over 100,000 miles are 100,000 / 4 * $.1 = $2,500.
For HFC Equinox hydrogen costs (per http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36705.pdf) are $4 x 2,000 kg = $8,000. More than 3 times! And you think you'll be able to purchase an HFC Equinox for under $100,000 any time soon? Wake up and smell the coffee ...