REPORT: Mazda working on business case for diesels in America
Stop us if you've heard this one. A major global automaker with plans in place to increase fuel efficiency X percent by X date offers all kinds of cool diesel engines all over the world except in America. The reason? Americans don't buy diesels, they say. In this case, the automaker in question is Mazda, and the goal is to boost the fuel efficiency of its fleet of cars and trucks 30 percent by 2015.
According to Seita Kanai, head of research and development at Mazda, the Japanese automaker would need to sell at least 10,000 diesel engines in the States to make a profitable business case. Not surprisingly, Mazda is studying Volkswagen's recent success in offering diesels here in America to see if there's any chance of moving the required units.
Whatever the case, we know that Mazda has some worthwhile new powerplants that we'd love to see installed in the engine bays of products like the current Mazda3 and upcoming Mazda2.
[Source: Automotive News - Sub. Req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Daryl Cobranchi 9:42AM (10/24/2009)
I loved my 1992 Mazda Protege and would jump at the chance to buy a Mazda 2 diesel. 9,999 to go.
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Matt 11:35AM (10/24/2009)
Meh, I have never been too interested the brand. It just seems like unless you got a rotary or a Miata it was fairly vanilla, and not the cost leader. I don't see what makes Mazda special as a brand (and don't say zoom zoom, they're not particularly sporty).
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Marauder_Pilot 12:19PM (10/24/2009)
The Mazda3 is pretty damn sporty.
Jimbo 2:16PM (10/24/2009)
Obviously you've never driven a Mazda. Other than the Tribute and the pickup, Mazdas are pretty damn fun to drive.
Matt 8:55PM (10/24/2009)
I've driven a Miata and a Mazda 3 (and test drove an RX8). Not impressed with the 3; it's "sportY", but no more than any other commuter car. I think they market it as sporty, but honestly the power to weight sux. The RX8 was a total waste of time. The Miata was fun, but not as much as the Saturn Sky or the Honda S2000. Clearly the last two are in another league, but for the price the Miata was ok. The rest of the lineup is so so; not sports cars for sure. Even the Mazda Speed doesn't compete with the relatively minor Civic Si. Try driving any Subaru or a V6 Accord if you want a Japanese sporty car. For something really fast you'll look at Chevy, BMW, Porsche, or even a VW Gti. Mazda has nothing in the real "zoom" range.
FitFan 2:35PM (10/25/2009)
The Mazdaspeed3 runs circles around the Honda Civic Si.
Matt 7:30PM (10/25/2009)
Upon further inspection, FitFan is right... but it's still nothing to write home about.
summazooma 7:25AM (10/26/2009)
I guess it depends on what your definition of "sporty" is.
Is it performance numbers? Then, your assertion, of anything short of a Mazdaspeed (which is still going to be below an STI or EVO), has some merit.
However, I had an X11 that put down really good numbers for the time ( used by a number of car magazines of the era for performance tire evaluations, in fact) and I don't wax poetically about it.
Mazda3's real calling card is it's tuning of things like shifters (was it a manual that you drove in the 3?), steering (as close to a go-kart as anything short of an all-out sports car or MINI), brakes, exhaust note (not immature but snorty, nonetheless). Most of these areas, such as MT shifter & clutch, are about as well-executed as you're going to find, even if you don't hold your search to just FWD cars. Suspension's tuned towards handling, not ride, so it can turn people off as "harsh", though I find it involving and responsive. Really, if you can imagine having fun just driving, rather than trying to race everything on the road, a Mazda is easily in the upper quartile for Sporty.
Then, styling, as subjective as it is, was really sharp on the previous 3, with the hatchback calling out the "Americans don't buy Hatchbacks" nay-sayers... Perhaps this is what Mazda is thinking with the Diesel proposition. It can't really be a leader in Hybrids, but it might be able to differentiate (at least, among Asian brands) in the U.S.
Matt 9:25AM (10/26/2009)
"Sporty" to me is like saying "fast-ish." It's not a sports car, but it wants to be. I think among Asian brands, Subaru really embodies this genre as a whole. The STi is a sports car, the Legacy is a sports car (and has to run stock exhaust to limit power in the Koni Street Tuner series), the lowest model Impreza is sporty.
The Madza 3 I drove was, unfortunately, an automatic. It rode like a soft Impreza in the suspension (good, but not WOW), and I have no way to comment on the shifter. On that subject, the smoothest/fastes shifting MT I've ever driven (by far) was a VW Jetta. Only thing about the Jetta is that you have to feel the clutch with your pants, there is no feedback at the foot. Anyway, to each their own. I prefer the styling of the German cars, but they are a little pricey in general. We'll see if a Japanese diesel can work some magic.
Monica Dickey 10:56PM (10/27/2009)
I think sporty is largely about visual impact for a lot of consumers. How many people really take their car out and tear around with it to gauge its performance? A lot of people are happy to drive even full-fledged sports cars as their commute car just because of the status and etc.
Matt 11:18PM (10/27/2009)
Q: How many people really take their car out and tear around with it to gauge its performance?
A: Every person I know that owns a "full-fledged sports car."
Also, you're right about the visual impact. Sporty cars tend to look as though they could go fast, then disappoint when the long skinny pedal is mashed. If you're all about looking cool, get the coolest looking car you can afford. If you really have a love for cars, you already have your next one picked out.
Jimbo 2:20PM (10/24/2009)
I'm so tired of hearing that Americans won't buy diesels. There is no evidence for this. Zero. None. The only company that is selling affordable diesels (and affordable is the key word) is VW and it is having no trouble selling them. I'm certain if there were more affordable diesels on the market, they would sell too. Automakers just need to grow a pair and do it.
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Snowdog 2:56PM (10/24/2009)
The real question. How many are willing to pay the $2000-$5000 more than a gas version of the same car?
How many Mazda 3s do they sell? Will they sell 10 000 diesels if offered at say $4000 more than the gas version?
I doubt it.
Jimbo 3:36PM (10/24/2009)
Mazda sells >100k 3s per year, which accounts for more than 40% of all Mazdas sold. The Mazda 3 starting prices already range from $16,500 for the base 4-door to $26,500 for a loaded Speed3. There's plenty of room in that range for a diesel. I think they'd easily sell 10,000 diesel 3s at $22,000, which is about what VW is charging for the Golf and Jetta TDI.
PaloAltoWorldView 10:31PM (10/24/2009)
That's right. Approximately half of all 2009 VW Jettas sold are/were diesels, and the 2010 percentage isn't going down. This is the ONLY 4 cylinder diesel for sale in the US today -- if you include the identical engine just starting to sell in the Audi A3 and VW Golf. A meaningful portion of people are perfectly willing to pay an extra $4,000 per car for one that delivers an extra 10 MPG and lasts longer (no sparkplugs, whatever). As an extra benefit, the strong torque fits most US driving conditions very well. European consumers have the choice of 1.4-2.2 liter 4-cylinder diesels in most cars. We should, too.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:22PM (10/25/2009)
Lasts longer is an assertion that is unsupported.
You say it has no spark plugs? Wow, that's great. Spark plugs last 100,000 miles now. MY car has 110,000 miles on it without changing the spark plugs. And spark plugs don't break down much either.
So you lose the spark plugs, and all you get in return is a turbocharger, intercooler, particulate filter, a 15,000psi fuel pump/system and maybe urea injection (depending on the vehicle). Diesels are not at all less complex than gas cars now, any claims of them lasting longer really will require some proof.
FitFan 2:43PM (10/25/2009)
If the Mazda 2 is offered with a small (1.3L) diesel that returns 60 mpg, I'll have my name on the list the day it's announced.
I think Jetta TDI sales prove that there's a market.
codogman 2:43PM (10/24/2009)
VW can barely make enough TDIs to keep up with demand here, yet "they" keep telling us diesels won't sell in America?
I drive a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD that loves biodiesel, gets 28mpg and can tow 5000 pounds. I absolutely LOVE this little SUV. It is fast, gets great gas mileage, and pulls like a little tugboat.
Americans will buy diesels.
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cmp 4:48PM (10/24/2009)
put a diesel in a mazda 3 hatch and I will replace my protege5 in a heartbeat. DO IT MAZDA. Oh and make sure to give it a proper manual transmission.
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dzdroik 7:01PM (10/24/2009)
The America market needs a challenge to the VW market on diesel powerplants used in their auto's in America!!! First of all I have a lemon VW diesel that has an ECM that has been worked on seven times with the dealer with his finger in his butt doesn't know what is going on with the ESP Icon light on the dash panel that stay's on. VW need a new kid in the neighborhood like a Japanese company like Mazda to keep it in place. I own one Mazda product and has very happy with it. A 1996 B4000 pickup that was built by Ford. It was good with fuel and performance on the highway.
Let's talk about the American in this country that don't understand the new diesel technology in diesel engines. I would still buy a diesel engine that has a higher fuel price than gasoline and is not supporting ADM ethanol in the current gasoline product. The farmers in this country is the back bone in this country. But I will not support a company that does not support them.
D.Z.
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